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jw3571 
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 Topic: Hari Algae Help
Posted: August 23 2010 at 1:43pm |
I've about had it with my hair algae problem. If I can't get on top of it I may have to give up the hobby. I have a 46 gallon bowfront with t5 ho lighting, skimmer, and emperror 280 filter. I do water changes every other week. I only have 2 fish left, a black clown and and a wrasse. I have a CUC as well as many corals although they are almost completely covered by hair algae. I've been dosing reef buffer in my top of water as well as reef builder and reef complete 2x a week. This is what my lfs told me to do. It's probably also time for new bulbs as mine are around 16 months old.
Here are my water parameters:
Alk 9.0
PH 8.3
Phosphates 0.2
salinity 1.023
Can someone please help me, I'll try anything at this point. Thanks
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 2:31pm |
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I can help. It's my specialty.
Do you dose anything else?
You mentioned a CUC. How many snails? How many hermits?
Can you post a pic of the tank?
What's the Ca level?
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jw3571
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 9:39pm |
I don't have a calcium number. I get screwy numbers when i test for that. I do dose something called Fuel once a week for coral growth. I also have been putting Phosguard in my emperror 280 once every two weeks.
Do I need a different filter? Do I need more powerheads?
Thanks for your help Mark.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:05am |
How many Snails and Hermits? Not to say you have done anything wrong, but up to this point Phosguard has not done much good, except maybe slowing the growth just a little. FYI, Phosguard is only used up when it turns tan/brown. Does it look that color when you change it? You may want to see the concurrent thread to the guy wanting a Sea Hare to
control his hair algae. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42962What screwy Ca numbers do you get? Fuel is formulated to add both Alk and Ca. <EDIT>Whoops, that's not right, sorry.  Well, it's very important to know what the level is before dosing the chemical, otherwise you can really mess up the chemistry which messes up the biology of the tank. And eventually Alk or Ca need to be added separately because they get used up at different rates in each tank. Where do you live? I'd be happy to come visit, take a look at the tank and test Alk and Ca. I cannot say about the filter and powerheads without a seeing a pic or viewing it in person or at least reading a description.
Edited by Mark Peterson - August 24 2010 at 11:00am
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bugzme
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:18am |
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fuel is used for trace elements, acids,vitamins and minerals. Not for alk and cal.
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Jeff
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I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:54am |
Oh, I'm sorry, I was thinking of something else. Thanks for correcting me. Okay, Fuel should be stopped for the time being. It is feeding the algae growth. For anyone else reading this, the current thread where jw3571 brought up the advice given by some that he needs new lights. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42978
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jw3571
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 8:10pm |
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I'll try to take a pic tonight. I plan on scraping all the hair algae off this weekend and then cutting my feedings to once every 3 days. Is that a good start?
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bugzme
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 8:56pm |
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Yes it is!
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Jeff
125 tank
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T-5 lighting
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I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!
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BobC63
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 9:42pm |
Additional questions for jw -
Photoperiod - how many hrs / day do you have your lights on?
Water - do you have an RO or RODI filter, or do you use tap water to top off and do your water changes?
(Fish) Food - how much do you feed those 2 fish?
(Coral) Food - As Mark said, stop the Fuel for now
Flow - Looks like only the HOB filter for water movement? Then yes, you need more flow (powerheads, etc)
Skimmer - what brand?
Phosguard - how much are you using at a time? What else is in that HOB filter (filter pads or cartridges, etc)?
Do you know your nitrate level?
What I would do:
1) Rip out all the hair algae you can... I know that it will be a big pain in the butt to do that, but your CUC will not eat long hair algae - only very short strands (something about the long algae develops a "bitter" taste to it)
2) For that size tank, you should have a total of at least 50 snails and 40 hermit crabs in there to keep up with the cleanup needs. If you have less than that, you need to get more.
3) Replace the Phosguard in your HOB. If you have a filter cartridge in there, remove it. I would fill a media bag half full with Phosguard and half with carbon and use only that in the filter.
4) No lights or food for 3 days straight. The lack of lights for 3 days will NOT harm your corals.
5) Consider replacing the T5 bulbs, as old bulbs shift spectrum and can contribute to excess algae growth.
6) 8 hrs of full light is plenty; if you want a longer photoperiod, then you can leave on any actinic (blue) bulbs for a longer time
7) Cut back feeding to 1 cube of frozen food (if that is what you are using) only every 3 -4 days. Consider getting a herbivorous fish (like a Yellow Tang, or a Coral Beauty Angel or small Foxface or Lawnmower Blenny) to help eat up any new algae growth.
8) If your nitrate is above 20 ppm, consider doing a 15 gallon water change.
9) Once the Hair algae has subsided, consider adding some macroalgae into your display tank. Chaeto algae is a good choice for this, as it doesn't 'connect' to the live rock and grow all over the place, it just stays in a nice 'ball'. The macroalgae will absorb some of the excess nutrients that are currently feeding that hair algae.
10) If you are using straight tap water, consider getting an RO filter to reduce the amount of minerals and nutrients going into your tank via top off water.
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
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jw3571
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:05pm |
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Answers for BobC63: I have the lights on for 8hrs/day. I buy my RO water from my fish store. I use it for topoff and water changes. I had been feeding a small piece of mysis or a pinch of pellets. I will stop the fuel for now. In addition to my Emperror 280, I have a aqua c remora skimmer along with 2 Koralia 2 powerheads. Do I need more? In my filter i'm running the pads that came with it that I believe have carbon in them. My Nitrate level is 0-5ppm
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Lewy
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:15pm |
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I had a similar problem where the algae kept coming even when my nitrate was that low. I followed most of the advice given to me. I added more crabs, a deeper sand bed, and chaeto in the display. One thing I also did that wasn't mentioned to me was open the hood and allow a better gas exchange. I did this for my mangrove so it would have a place to grow but got the gas exchange as well. Now I get very little hair algae.
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40 gal w/ 20 sump
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BobC63
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:16pm |
OK, so then you are already good on 6), 8) and 10) on my list...
I do not think you need any more flow right now; 2 K2s are sufficient.
I would still pull the pads and go with the carbon / phosguard in a media bag instead. That's what I do in my HOB filter on my 37g Hex tank. Those filter cartridges don't have all that much carbon in them, and the "pad" part ends up being a trap for food and other junk.
And think about more CUC, adding a herbivorous fish, and the macroalgae.
You definitely can beat this.
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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jw3571
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 11:01pm |
So the filter cartridges could be part of the problem? Stupid question, If I don't have the cartridges what happens to all food and junk it collects? Doesn't it just go back into my tank? Isn't that a bad thing? I'm just trying to understand. Also, I used to have both a coral beauty and a foxface but they've both died. I'd love a yellow tank but have read on other boards you really need a 6ft long tank to have a tang or even a foxface. Is this not true?
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BobC63
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Posted: August 24 2010 at 11:36pm |
A small tang or foxface (2 - 3 inches long) would be OK for probably several years
The Lawnmower Blenny and Coral Beauty won't get too big at all
The problem with the cartridges is twofold.
1) All the stuff that collects on them, rots on them and decays into nutrients that can "feed" problems like hair algae. Without the cartridges, uneaten food and other stuff do go back into the tank - where either your fish, corals or CUC will eat it, instead fo it just rotting away. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but I can tell you my 37g tank is defintely cleaner looking since I stopped using the filter cartridges.
2) Cartidges only have a small amount of carbon in them. I busted open a Penguin HOB filter cartidge one time and it was like 1 teaspoon of carbon in there. Not nearly enough to do any real good. Using a media bag filled with maybe 1 or 2 cups of carbon and a 1/2 cup or so of Phosguard is more along the lines of what you should try...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: August 25 2010 at 9:06am |
I agree with everything that was said above. Good advice.
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arthuriv
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Posted: August 25 2010 at 9:48am |
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I may have missed it but other than the Cuc what kind of clean up crew do you have? How many hermits and snails and what kind? Do you have any emerald crabs?
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 25 2010 at 10:05am |
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I too will agree with just about everything that has been said here.
I would recommend an urchin to also help out. I had hair algae when I first set up a tank about 3 years ago. I added a Blue Tuxedo Urchin and within a week it mowed down all of the hair algae. I then kept it for a while longer to make sure nothing was going to return. I then sold it back to the LFS so it didn't die from a lack of food in my tank.
However, I think the recommendations of adding like 40 snails and 50 crabs is a little crazy. In my 40 gallon tank I have maybe 10 astrea snails, 4 cerith snails and 5 nasassarius(sp?) snails. I might have one or two crabs at this point. I HATE hermit crabs in my tank anymore. At one point every snail I put in, they ate. So I pulled some out and have just let the others die over time. I'm sure there was a reason for the crabs eating the snails but I solved the problem another way.
I dose Vodka in my tank to help keep nutrients under control. I have no signs of bad algae in my tank and only have to clean the glass maybe every 3 days. Vodka is a whole other topic though. Try what has been said here and I bet the algae is gone pretty quick.
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Chris Scott
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Posted: August 25 2010 at 11:44am |
 BobC63 wrote:
4) No lights or food for 3 days straight. The lack of lights for 3 days will NOT harm your corals.
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As long as you don't have an anemone! no light for 3 days sent my anemone moving and took a while to nurse him back to full health.
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Luckedout
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Posted: August 25 2010 at 1:00pm |
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Lawnmower blenny was one of my favorite cleaners. fun fish and they don't get too big.
40 snails is actually spot on, if not a few more. 50 crabs seems like a bit much. Depending on the snails I would do about 50 snails and about 10 hermits or a couple of emerald crabs. In my 90g I have about 20 hermits (never had a problem with any of them) 2 emeralds and about 120 snails (They've been breeding....)
Bob's right about those filter pads. Unless you are changing them about weekly, they are pretty worthless. Get a media bag or some type of mesh bag for your carbo. Do everything else he said and you'll be good to go in no time.
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DLindquist
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Posted: August 25 2010 at 2:54pm |
All tanks are different but- I have a 90 gallon with 0 crabs & 0 snails. I had a yellow tang & coral beauty but just sold them as I prepare for my new shipment of fish. Hopefully I will not have to load up on snails or crabs as I am not a big fan either.
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