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Weimers 
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 Topic: Ich
Posted: April 13 2004 at 6:18pm |
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Need some advice on Ich. I've used 5 big bottles of Marine No-Ich in sufficient quantities. We have always fed the fish using minced garlic from Smiths mixed in with the food, but perhaps its potency was decreased because we were putting R/O water in to dissolve the frozen foods more quickly. We still have Ich in 3 fish. Yesterday I bought Garlic 6000, which says that it has 600mg of Alium sativum. I wanted a gel cap with powder, but you can't see the pills because it's a dark brown bottle. It turned out to be hard tablets, so I took 2 tablets and soaked them in water from the tank. They never broke down, so I put 12 tablets in the blender with 1/4 cup of food. I fed that food yesterday and today, and actually fed a lot of it. Hasn't helped. It makes a huge white cloud, and the food particles turned out to be awfully small. Should I try Garlic Xtreme from the LFS, or Kaolic from GNC, or ?? HELP? The ich appeared on 26 March. The fish all look fine, except for their spots. I have 2 cleaner shrimp and one cleaner wrasse. Should I get more cleaner shrimp?
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Renee and Damon Weimer
Tankless in Hawaii
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chrisslc
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Posted: April 13 2004 at 6:51pm |
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Don't know much about the rest of it (sorry) but on the thawing, I'd use tank water, you'd have to imagine fresh water would taste sour to saltwater critters
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Murray, Utah just north of the park.
"It's all the same to the clam" -Shel Silverstein
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 13 2004 at 7:40pm |
I know this doesn't help, but I bet Mark and I are thinking the same thing.... there is a some underlying problem of bigger concern. You may or may not be able to save these fish, but I would be looking at the rest of the tank health first.
Oh yah, and I used the GNC bottle of garlic pills.
Adam
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Weimers
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Posted: April 13 2004 at 8:02pm |
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Mark was here yesterday. The temp problem that I've been posting I think is the source. The power went off twice in a week, and originally it was the really hot week when the tank warmed up - - which everyone says was not a problem - - but for our tank was a big problem cuz that's when the ich showed up.
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Carl
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Posted: April 13 2004 at 9:23pm |
Sorry that the NMI didn't work for you. I worked like a charm the two times that I needed it. As for the heat... how high? I am at 84-85 during the day no matter what I do and I don't have any issues with Ich. Of course, it's always in the system but weakened fish are more susceptible. Hhmmm... weird. Wish you the best.
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In Syracuse
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JimL
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Posted: April 13 2004 at 9:44pm |
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Freshwater dip works well for crytocaryon (ich). It makes
these little parasites explode. But... this is one of those
problems that will just get worse if you don't do something
soon. A U.V. sterilizer will kill off the cryptocaryon over time (if
the flow rate is slow enough) Each crytocaryon cyst that
reaches maturity will give birth to 256 more of these little
monsters. Oh boy! Then these bugs will be everywhere.
I can't think of a treatment that will work in your tank. Looks
like freshwater dip for now. Ryan might be able to rent you a
UV light and pump. It kills algae and phytoplankton too.
It might pay to have one of your own. I have 4. I swear by
them too.
Jim
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Jared Wood
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 7:25am |
How about trying a couple Gobiosoma oceanops (neon goby). They eat parasites off of the other fish. We have one with yellow stripes. He keeps the white spots off our biocolor anthias harem. And like to nibble on my arm whenever I have it in the tank.
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In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth ... then He let it cycle. Have you read my dinosaur theory yet?
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Weimers
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 7:10pm |
I talked to a Dr. Prescott at the www.fishvet.com - the company that sells Marine No Ich. He asked me if my fish look better in the morning or worse. I told him they look better. He told me to leave all the lights on in the system for 3 days because cryptocarion (one of three kinds of ich) is diurnal. I asked if that meant it was photosynthetic. He said no, it basically means they need a day and night cycle to survive and thrive. So he said to leave the lights on for 3 days, also dosing the tank every single day until I am "quite sure that it has definitely improved," then dose every other day until I'm sure it's cured. Then dose 3 more times just to be sure.
I have two dead hydnoporas since the start of this. My anemone is very unhappy, and the directions say to not run the skimmer or any carbon. I cheated and ran the skimmer for 2 days just to see if that might finally help. I have 3 kinds of garlic going on, and about to buy a fourth. I'm waiting for the fish to jump out and holler, "CAN WE GET SOME REAL FOOD - - WITHOUT GARLIC?!" But really the tank looks all right. Oh, the chalk basslett with the infected eye is still kicking. Not eating much, though.
What do we think of Dr. Prescott's advice? Do they sell Marine No-Ich in a 5 gallon variety? Ugh.
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Weimers
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 7:14pm |
Oh, I forgot. We tried to catch Lucky to dip him. We didn't stress them out, but it was very obvious that he will not be caught. I tried tricking him with food + net a few times. He's smart.
Neon goby? More cleaner shrimp? UV sterilizer? I can't kill my clam, though! He needs phyto. Others need the phyto too, I think.
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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JimL
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 7:45pm |
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Sounds like the fishvet has the answer. Thats what I would try
first (for sure). Is the No-ich expensive? And ...does it treat other
parasites too?
Remeber... One cryptocaryon cyst survives and a new outbreak is
just around the corner. Every new fish is a potential carrier.
I hate it when it happens.
CLOROX is king!
heh....
Jim
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Weimers
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 8:21pm |
The bottle I have sitting here is $40. I've used 5 of them. It doesn't say what it treats - just that its ingredients are: "5-nitroimidazoles."
So for tonight I'll leave the lights on, and hit them with garlicky food in the morning. I hope the lack of darkness doesn't stress them out. Would a gradual change in the salinity help? Like I said before, all water parameters are still good. Which is kind of amazing, cuz the skimmer seems to pull a lot of stuff out. Let me know your thoughts on the Uber No Ich plan, please?
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Weimers
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 8:55pm |
http://www.fishvet.com/pages/articles.tmpl had interesting info on Ich and other fish diseases. I thought it might prove useful for others.
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 10:14pm |
I'm curious to hear what Mark says about this. Somehow I think he and I are thinking along the same lines. We tend to agree on this subject.
Renee, don't read this next part because it isn't what you want to hear....
(everyone else- I think the fish aren't going to cope well with the fishvet suggestions, and I don't like the suggestions at all. this looks to me like more changes, more stress, more money wasted, and more problems to come)
Adam
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dianatabor
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Posted: April 14 2004 at 10:56pm |
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Renee,
If it were me, I'd listen to Dr. Prescott's advice and leave the lights on for a few days. I would think that he knows quite a bit about ich. You have plenty of caves in your rock, so I don't think it will stress your fish out too much. Plus, it might actually help the anemone feel better. The only thing I'd watch out for is the temperature.
Neon gobies and cleaner shrimp are great, but I don't know how much they will help you at this point. But, then again, they couldn't hurt. Hmmm...
The UV sterilizer may be a good idea for immediate action, but I wouldn't continue using it fulltime. Only if you had a fish-only tank. Otherwise, you'd be killing valuable food in your tank - not worth it. Using one for a week or two would probably be okay.
As for the garlic... I've read that it is possible to use too much garlic, so don't over do it. (See the info at the bottom of this post...) I use Kent Garlic Xtreme (99% garlic oil). It's very easy to use. I love it. You're welcome to borrow it, if you think it will help. Here's an exerpt from the package:
Directions: Add 2 drops per teaspoon of fish food each time you feed. Use particularly if parasites are present or if fish have visible wounds or infections. If fish are not eating, Garlic Xtreme may also be added to the aquarium at a rate of 1 drop per 10 gallons.
Use and Interaction: Kent Garlic Xtreme is an all natural food additive for all ornamental fishes. It is a natural attractant for fish and will help cause finicky eaters to take food. Garlic is safe for all species of marine and freshwater fishes and plants, live corals, and other invertabrates. Because Garlic Xtreme is very strong and fish are extremely sensitive to chemical cues and scents in the water, it is not recommended that you exceed 2 drops per feeding...
These are just my opinions. Whatever you decide, I wish you and your fishies the best of luck!!!
Diana
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Connie
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Posted: April 15 2004 at 7:57am |
| Hint hint store owners... If there is a fish store that would QT for us and ensure there is no ich in their fish.. I would gladly pay double.. This is a problem none of us want to deal and in the long run costs us much much more then it would to just tanke it in the shorts to start with. Plus I dont want to get a new fish I can put in my tank for a month... |
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Carl
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Posted: April 15 2004 at 8:14am |
Renee/Damon,
I cannot remember, but I thought that there was a guarantee on the No-Ich Marine. I can't remember, but I would definately push the issue. Maybe they will give you some for free since you've spent so much in the medication. Also, double-check the dosage and make sure that you're using the "severe infestation" dosage.
I would also question them about the hydnoporas. That stuff isn't supposed to affect corals or inverts. I don't know... sounds like something is going on that isn't quite normal IMO.
I also agree with Diana, the fish will be OK with the lights on (watch the temp) since there's room to hide in the rocks. Maybe they'll think it's cool like when my kids turn the lights back on after we put them in bed.
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In Syracuse
"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 15 2004 at 8:15am |
Reefobsessed,
I like you post. I like it because it causes me to think. I don't like buying quarantined fish. I know a lot of the local stores copper some of their systems, and I don't buy the fish from those systems. I wonder if people would really support stores that QT fish ahead of time.
I can tell you this, people wouldn't be willing to pay more for their fish. Remember, we aren't normal people (Duh, I know) and the vast majority of customers out there want cheaper prices above all.
Adam
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Connie
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Posted: April 15 2004 at 9:09am |
| Thats my point... If you wipe out a tank with $300.00 in fish, with one $25.00 dollar fish how are you money ahead?? Charge me $50.00 anyday to ensure I dont have this headache.....I just had a high fin die after he shed for a week.(?).I just picked up a purple tang that has something... its not ich but its a white fungas. I am hoping he pulls through as I am not willing to risk the masses to save one.....I really dont know why I do this hobby. It is soooooo aggravating |
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jfinch
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Posted: April 15 2004 at 9:34am |
I know a lot of the local stores copper some of their systems, and I don't buy the fish from those systems.
Really? I would have bet lots of money that every LFS keeps their fish in coppered systems. Why would you be against that practice?
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 15 2004 at 9:59am |
I'm not really against it. I do see good coming from it. But, here is what I do. When I go to Bird World, I buy fish from the invert system, not the fish sytem. When I go to Fish 4 U I buy fish from those invert tanks, not the other tanks. From The Sea and The Aquarium also have some invert systems, so that is where I look. I don't know about Aquatica, I need to go there, it has been a while and I like that store a lot.
I'm sure not everyone does this, but I do. Also, I believe those fish are HEALTHIER than the fish in the other tanks. I know people will disagree with me on this, and that is okay. I would rather have a fish which is accustomed to the reef tank type of water.
Adam
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