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backwards32 
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 Topic: New design for a sump
Posted: October 29 2014 at 4:42pm |
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I want to try something new and different in the next sump I build. does anyone have any thoughts? anything in your system that you wish you had?
I was just brainstorming today and trying to think of new things that haven't been done before. so these ideas might be stupid but just throwing it out there.
1. lining the refugium with mirrors for optimal macro algea growth.
2. I have made a few sumps with the slanted inlet into the refugium
3. I went to the salt mixer Friday night and John for SA was talking about how they use a large amount of biowheels on their systems. they are all just powered by the flow of the water. so I have been thinking of a way to incorporate a biowheel into the inlet if the so it can have the same effect.
4. I have seen on the interweb that some people use algea scrubbers. I have been watching some youtube videos and I think I could make one myself. wondering if anyone has used one of these? thinking I could incorporate that into the sump some how.
I guess my list wasn't very long but i will keep thinking and add to it. let me know if you have any thoughts
Edited by backwards32 - November 21 2014 at 7:40am
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backwards32
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Posted: November 13 2014 at 9:20pm |
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No one has any other new thoughts or ideas...
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backwards32
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Posted: November 16 2014 at 11:57am |
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Ok so now with the MWRF done I have a little more time to start working on sumps again. I am making a sump for Paul Brandon. I have gathered all the glass I need and am going to start putting the tank together this week.
we decided to do as discussed in idea #2 and line the refugium with mirrors. pictures of this build will be coming soon.
I also added another idea that I got at the MWRF. see what you think
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backwards32
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Posted: November 20 2014 at 9:09pm |
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Jdreeves
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Posted: November 20 2014 at 10:24pm |
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I'm interested to see how the mirror idea works out! I wonder why it hasn't been done before because it totally makes sense...
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 20 2014 at 11:02pm |
 backwards32 wrote:
3. I went to the salt mixer Friday night and John for SA was talking about how they use a large amount of biowheels on their systems. they are all just powered by the flow of the water. so I have been thinking of a way to incorporate a biowheel into the inlet if the so it can have the same effect. |
Not a good idea. Biowheels are for fish only systems where there is no LS or LR. We call them "Nitrate factories" because they process Ammonia and Nitrite which would be harmful to fish, but they do nothing for the final step in the process, changing Nitrate into Nitrogen gas and water. The effect of high Nitrate levels is, of course, problems for invertebrates, including coral, yet fish thrive.
The best sump/Refugiums have plenty of LS and Macroalgae and maybe a little room for a skimmer if that is your choice. FYI, linked in the WMAS Reefkeeping Tips is a thread regarding the basics of Refugiums.
Aloha 
P.S. When listening to a guest speaker, it's important to consider their background and knowledge base. John Carberry is a self-made materials engineer/entrepreneur with a B.S. Degree in Literature that is helping run his son's company. He knows relatively little about reefkeeping.
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backwards32
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Posted: November 21 2014 at 7:36am |
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Thanks Mark. that's the kind of discussion I was looking for. I wasn't sure why they used the biowheel so much so that was good input.
New idea
4. I have seen on the interweb that some people use algea scrubbers. I have been watching some youtube videos and I think I could make one myself. wondering if anyone has used one of these? thinking I could incorporate that into the sump some how.
Edited by backwards32 - November 21 2014 at 7:41am
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 21 2014 at 9:05am |
Regarding biowheels, if you heard Jerry's presentation about the filtration at Scheels, you'll notice the same principle of Ammonia and Nitrite conversion is used in those systems. If I recall, there was no mention of Nitrate levels because fish are not bothered by Nitrate.
The reason mirrors aren't used? A good reflector around the light source focuses the useful light down upon the Macroalgae in the most beneficial way. The small amount of twice reflected light outside of the focal area doesn't make any significant difference.
The reason ATS(algal turf scrubbers) are not used more often? A well set up Refugium with ample room for LS and Macroalgae does the same job in a simpler way. An ATS requires more complicated plumbing and extra space (see pic below), space which is at a premium inside an aquarium stand. The KISS principle is always useful.
Are you wondering why I believe that an ample amount of LS and Macroalgae is important? Why have I said nothing about filling a sump/Refugium with LR?
This WMAS Members tank is from >10 years ago. It was ahead of its time. There were animals and algae growing there like none other in it's day. Notice the DSB in both the display and the Refugium? It was Utah Oolitic Sand. Very little dosing was done, yet stony coral and calcarous algae were prolific. The ATS is the bright area above the Refugium tank. It's a long shallow trough. I believe a similar effect could have been much easier to achieve by using a longer/larger Refugium with a submersible pump suspended above the sand bad, near the water surface. The pic I've shared below is one I took the same day. It has been used frequently in WMAS literature.
Aloha
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Krazie4Acans
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Posted: November 21 2014 at 10:41am |
I would be sure to completely seal the mirror from the salt water. The surface on a mirror that allows the reflection of light is actually a layer of silver applied to the glass. Allowing salt water to get to the edge of the mirror would allow the salt to erode the silver from between the glass and the black paint that usually coats the back (you see this all the time with older bathroom mirrors). That silver layer being dissolved into the water column is adding heavy metals to your tank that we have tried so hard to make sure never make it into our tanks. That's just a thought I had on it. Krazie 
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backwards32
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Posted: November 22 2014 at 8:39pm |
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That's good to know crazy. I will probably have to mount the mirror on the outside so it doesn't come in contact with the water.
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backwards32
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Posted: November 23 2014 at 12:08pm |
Ok just got a few of the baffles installed this morning. its actually starting to look like a sump. 
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backwards32
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Posted: November 28 2014 at 8:50am |
well this project is finished. it holds water like a champ. we decided not to do the mirrors for a couple of reasons. a couple of people mentioned that the silver could corrode into the water leaving trace metals in the tank. so I was going to mount them on the outside of the glass on two of the sides. but paul wanted to be able to look in to the sump from the side. so we could have put one piece on the back side, but at this point I don't think that really would have done much haha. so we went without the mirrors. but I would still like to try to find a way to make that work. anyways here is the tank all full of water and ready to go.   This sump was under $100 and I think a great deal for him and a fun project for me
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backwards32
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Posted: November 28 2014 at 8:51am |
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With this project finished I am ready for a new one. so if anyone is interested in a custom sump let me know
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