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Confused about effluent readings

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unixnum1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 01 2006 at 1:00pm
I have a DIY CA reactor that I finally made functional (I thought).
However, I am confused about the readings.

The effluent  readings are:

    Kh up off the scale
    CA 180

I am running  ~120 CO2 bubbles a minute and 1 drop effluent per second.

The Kh is high because the of CO2, right?
Why is the CA so low? Because of the high Kh?

How can I start dialing this in?


220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
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If life is a bowl of cherry's,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tammy3770 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 1:37pm

you must know your magnesium levels before trying to fix either you alk or ca.

a " good" magnesium level is between 1350 and 1500 (ppm I think). when you have good mg. levels you wont have a seasaw effect with your alk/ca. If the Mg is low then when your alk increases your ca will decrease, when your ca increases your alk will decrease.

 when first setting up your reactor it is best to start with a low co2 bubble rate to raise alk slowly, and test your tank water daily. to raise your alk/ca increase the bubble and effluent drip proportionally. Mine is 1 co2 bubble to 3 effluent drips.

Now that can be 1 bubble and 3 drips a min, 2 bubble and 6 drips a min, 3 bubble 9 drips a min, and so on. I think that 20bubble /60 drips is a good place to start

the amount depends on your tank and its inhabitants.

there may be times that you will need to add a calcium buffer or a alk buffer. but only if you know your mg level. 

It is not a set it and forget it situation, tests will need to be run daily until the desired levels are reached and maintained. Then weekly and after water changes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewaldsreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 1:39pm
What is the Ph of the effluent? It should be around 6.5 to breack down the media. Also what kind of media are you using?
Contact me for professional aquarium maintenance and localy grown coral frags. [URL=http://www.aquatitranquility.com][/URL]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tammy3770 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 1:39pm

Ps test your tank water, testing your effulent may drive you crazy,

Unless someone here knows a good easy way to dial in useing effulent

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unixnum1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 2:04pm
Well the Mg is around 1400, it varies just a little bit.
The PH is ~6.6

I am using good old aragonite since I couldn't find any ARM.

I have been testing the effluent because I was told to test it by several people.

Thanks for the input.
220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
=====================================

If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tammy3770 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 2:18pm

aragonite is fine IMO.

how long has the reactor been online?

what is the alk/ca in the tank?

sounds like you are on the right path

just keep testing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unixnum1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 2:26pm
The reactor has only been running for a couple of days.
CA = ~390
Kh = ~9.6   (I have to keep adding lots of buffer to keep it there)
Ph = 7.9
220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
=====================================

If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unixnum1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 2:32pm
As a side question I was thinking about running my top off water through this first instead of salt water from my sump.
Would this affect how I would run it?
That way I could get rid of a pump.

Thinking about it this might not be a good idea because I couldn't control the flow rate into the tank.

Thoughts?
220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
=====================================

If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tammy3770 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 2:34pm

how are you doing the input water?Is it gravity fed or do you have it coming off of a pump? do you ever have a co2 buildup in the reactor chamber?

do you know what your ca/alk was before your reactor?

Just keep testing tomorrow to see if your ca/alk is rising, if not then you need to make changes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unixnum1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 2:38pm
I have a small pump pumping the sump water into the reactor.
The CO2 excess is pulled from the top and sucked back thru the system.

From the 2 days of running, no differences have been observed.
220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
=====================================

If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tammy3770 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 2:53pm

well is seems that the ph in the effulent is within range, so to raise your alk/ca increase to drip of effulent.

check this out it may be of some help

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/index.p hp

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 3:50pm

Kh up off the scale
CA 180

This isn't right.  Your calcium number is bad.  Your calcium value in the effluent has to be higher then in your tank.

The Kh is high because the of CO2, right?
Why is the CA so low? Because of the high Kh?

No, CO2 does not measure as alkalinity.  The alk is high because the media is dissolving and when it dissolves it releases both calcium and alkalinity.  The effluent of my reactor is normally 12 meq/l (34 dKH) and 600 ppm calcium.

I'd recheck your calcium number.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewaldsreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 3:56pm
I would listen to John. This is his area of expertice.
Also before dialing in your reactor it is a good idea to get your calcium up to were it should be. I used turbo ca for this. The ca reactor is more designed to maintain ca rather then raise it.
Contact me for professional aquarium maintenance and localy grown coral frags. [URL=http://www.aquatitranquility.com][/URL]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unixnum1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 4:06pm
That is what I had thought. The numbers just didn't make sense.
However, I had checked them twice and they came out the same. (for the effluent)

Thinking about it, I think I may have part of the answer, I just realized that my top off pours right next to the pickup pump for the reactor.
So that area is mostly fresh water.
I will move my pump tonight and see what it does.

Thanks for the insight
220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
=====================================

If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unixnum1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 4:15pm
I deffinetly listen to John! Do you think I want a    Just kidding

Actually I have been able to keep the CA around 400.
It is the Kh I have a hard time maintaining. I end up adding lots of buffer.
From reading the articles, it looks like I will need to start adding kalk while using the ca reactor.
Correct?
220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
=====================================

If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tammy3770 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 4:30pm

wait:

what are your tank params again?

and what are the readings from your effulent?

what kind of test kits are you useing?

help me fit my head around this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unixnum1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 4:57pm
Ok,
Test kits are Salifert.
Tank:

dKh = 9.6-10
Ca  = 390-400
PH  = 7.9-8.0
Mg  = 1400

Effluent:

dKh = Off the top15+
Ca  = 180
PH  = 6.6
Mg  = ?? Didn't take it.

However, as I stated previously I think the problem is caused my my pickup pump located right next to my top off hose so I think that area is mostly fresh.
I was planning on moving it tonight and seing if it improves.

220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller.
=====================================

If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 5:31pm

For the alk test I only use 1 ml of effluent water.  One drop of indicator.  And titrate to color change.  Read the alk value off the chart and multiply by 4.  This saves on titrate (the kit will last longer).  And I only use 1 ml for the calcium test and multiply the answer by two... I think the instructions for the calcium kit actually explain this.

Oh, and make sure you titrate the calcium kit past the purple color to blue.



Edited by jfinch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tammy3770 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 6:40pm

on sailfert alk its actually 2ml of water 1 drop oh kh-ind for the low resolution then multiply the value by 2

as opposed to 4ml of water and 2 drops of kh-ind.

so are you suppose to test effulent differently?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2006 at 7:13pm

on sailfert alk its actually 2ml of water 1 drop oh kh-ind for the low resolution then multiply the value by 2

yup, and 1 ml of water is "ultra low res" .  Just remember to multiply by 4 rather then 2.

so are you suppose to test effulent differently?

Testing the effluent of the reactor gives you an idea of how well it's working.  You test it the same way you'd test your tank water.  I hardly ever test my effluent calcium because I know it will track with my alk... it has to.

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