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Maintaining pH

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    Posted: July 03 2011 at 7:59am
Just looking for some opinions/experience on best methods to maintain pH without manually adding buffer.  kalk reactor, calcium reactor, co2 scrubber, etc.  Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kellerexpress Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2011 at 10:22am
Running a lit refugium opposite the main lighting cycle will help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2011 at 10:38am
I use kalk in all my top off water.... I do have a ATO so it makes it oh so easy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffatpm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2011 at 11:22am
I'm running into this challenge also, I tried opposite light for my sump but only brought the ph up for an hour the dropped down again.  I tried doing the top off with kalk in the middle of the night - I didn't even notice a change in the PH.  
I'm currently slowing growing my alk to about 12 as I'm told the basic level of alk is ph in reserve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2011 at 11:33am
I run reverse daylight in refugium as well. I personally think, unless you have a large enough refugium with rock, macro, etc. this will help marginally.  I can keep my pH up above 8.0, but that is with manually using buffer regularly.  I'd rather automate this. I have an ATO hooked to a float valve directly from my RO in the basement with just a drip line.  Not sure I could push enough pressure as far away as it is to have a holding tank there with kalk...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snowsrfr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2011 at 9:27pm
My 50 cube is a SPS dominate tank, and I run a Ca reactor (built by tcfab) and it keeps my pH "rock steady" 24 hours a day. I only experience a swing of about .03 or slightly higher through a 24 hour period.

My .02 cents...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffatpm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2011 at 10:15am
That's awesome to hear, the ca reactor does that much control on ph.  I thought a ca reactor would bring ph down....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 12:30am
Try dosing Vodka or vinegar when your lights come on to keep your ph a bit lower especially if you use kalk.  This might counter the kalk and keep the tank from having such a dramatic swing in ph over a 24 hr period.  Start dosing vodka or vinegar in very small amounts, like a few ml and gradually increase it over a long period of time.  It's a very gradual process and will take time to see results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffatpm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 9:44am
My PH is currently swinging from 8.02 to 8.23.  If I do this over time, what do you mean by seeing results?  What would this accomplish by doing it over time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 10:40am
I actually think dosing Vodka or any carbon source will drop pH?  It depletes oxygen, which will cause a drop in pH right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffatpm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 1:08pm
That is my understanding, and where i'm getting the top end of my ph where I want it, why would I want to bring it down?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by Merk Merk wrote:

Try dosing Vodka or vinegar when your lights come on to keep your ph a bit lower especially if you use kalk.  This might counter the kalk and keep the tank from having such a dramatic swing in ph over a 24 hr period.  Start dosing vodka or vinegar in very small amounts, like a few ml and gradually increase it over a long period of time.  It's a very gradual process and will take time to see results.
 
If you should decide to dose Vodka or vinegar- Do your research first. Not something you want to just jump into. This could bring about problems far worse than low PH.
 
I also run a calcium reactor along with a skimmer. My PH stays at a constant 8.2. I still have not had a chance to set up my refugium. My sump has an unbelievable amount of oxygen turn over.
 
I truly believe certain synthetic salts will bring down your PH. This has been my personal experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by DLindquist DLindquist wrote:

Originally posted by Merk Merk wrote:

Try dosing Vodka or vinegar when your lights come on to keep your ph a bit lower especially if you use kalk.  This might counter the kalk and keep the tank from having such a dramatic swing in ph over a 24 hr period.  Start dosing vodka or vinegar in very small amounts, like a few ml and gradually increase it over a long period of time.  It's a very gradual process and will take time to see results.
 
If you should decide to dose Vodka or vinegar- Do your research first. Not something you want to just jump into. This could bring about problems far worse than low PH.
 
I also run a calcium reactor along with a skimmer. My PH stays at a constant 8.2. I still have not had a chance to set up my refugium. My sump has an unbelievable amount of oxygen turn over.
 
I truly believe certain synthetic salts will bring down your PH. This has been my personal experience.

I totally agree, vodka dosing is not something to take lightly or jump into without doing a LOT a research on the subject. Does it work? Yes. Can it crash your tank? Yes. The bottom line is know what you're getting into so you can plan accordingly. To help raise pH you can do many simple things like point powerheads and returns at the surface to cause more agitation. This facilitates better gas exchange which helps the water hold more oxygen, which then increases pH. Running a RDP refugium can also help increase dissolved oxygen at night when CO2 tends to build up due to lack of photosynthesis. A protien skimmer will also help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 10:52pm
My 2 cents:
Keeping Alkalinity in range and then moving the water from bottom to top as fast as possible is all it takes.

An RDP Refugium is useful but I've had about 10 tanks since my last RDP Refugium tank in 2007 and they all worked great growing SPS and everything else really well.

My last bit of advice is to stop worrying about pH. I have not checked pH in any of my tanks since sometime before the year 2000. It's just not that big of a deal as long as Alk is in range.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffatpm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2011 at 9:32am
I wanted to share a success.  I changed salts to red sea black bucket salt and my ph has improved dramatically.  Lowest is goes is about 8.19 and goes up to 8.41.  I set my ato to fill at night as the ph starts to drop, my ato has a kalk reactor in line and it really only slows the ph drop minimally.

So far I'm very impressed with this salt, I was using oceanic before.  Drfostersmith.com has the big bucket on sale for $54 and no shipping costs - great price!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2011 at 12:44pm
That's great.
I never have liked Oceanic salt. It just never has seemed right to me to have extra Ca in the salt mix when Alk is so terribly important.
Is the Alkalinity staying higher now?

I suspect that the reason pH is higher is because of the teeter-totter effect of Alk and Ca. Pouring more Calcium rich Oceanic salt into the tank with each water change was pushing Alk down and with it went pH.
This is the beneficial buffering effect that comes from anything which helps Alkalinity. As far as salt mixes go, I believe the same improved effect would happen with the tried and true standard Instant Ocean salt mix. This is my opinion, of course.

From what I said above about not worrying about pH, out of curiousity, my followup questions would be:
Have you noticed any difference in the tank?
Are coral happier?
Are fish brighter?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2011 at 3:06pm
That's great to hear. I too strive for a constant PH- of 8.2.
As I stated earlier, certain salt mixes will have an affect on your PH. Oceanic is one of them. I love the higher calcium content Oceanic contains, so I continue to use this salt. However, I mix it in equal parts with my Instant Ocean salt to avoid lower PH.
...and if you're happier with the results, it's all worth it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffatpm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2011 at 3:17pm
The corals are happier and even my badly sucked in candy cand that it's skeleton is covered with coraline algea.  It's pushing out and trying to be bushy again.  I see the colors on my corals to be a bit brighter and polyps extending more.  As far as fish I haven't noticed a difference other than my chocolate tang having a spine of my urchin in his side this morning (puzzled) - Hopefully he heals ok.
 
Dlindquist - I thought about doing a half and half but I found the red sea salt for a pretty good deal online $54 for the big black bucket.  I may mix with instant ocean going forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2011 at 11:20am
That's fantastic.Big smile

I'd really like to know, What were the Alk and Ca testing before and what are they now, after changing to RS Coral Pro?

FYI, Not too long ago, IO salt in the 200 gal mix was $45 with free shipping from F&S. It comes as four unmarked bags in a box.


Edited by Mark Peterson - September 11 2011 at 11:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2011 at 12:27pm
FYI, Not too long ago, IO salt in the 200 gal mix was $45 with free shipping from F&S. It comes as four unmarked bags in a box.
[/QUOTE]

I picked up four of these boxes for a similar price from The Aquarium not to long ago.
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