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aceofspadeskb 
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 Topic: Help! Super high Magnesium
Posted: November 23 2013 at 10:57am |
I finally could afford a mag test kit(red sea) and my water just tested over 1600 ppm. I actually have no clue how high it actually is. Red Sea's kit ends at 1600 ppm with .8 ml of titrant used and I used .84 ml. I'm guessing this is a problem. I've noticed lately that my LPS corals(trumpet, favia) don't put out their tentacles anymore...could this be because of high mag?
Other parameters: Calcium: 420 ppm Alkalinity: 7dkh phosphates: .02 Nitrates: somewhere under 20(I hate match-the-color tests!)
pH: 8.0 Temperature: 80(I need to replace one of my heaters that is stuck on) SG: 1.025
I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt.
Also note, these tests were done this morning and it's time for a water change this afternoon. I'll post new test results after the water change tomorrow. I'm also going to test the new saltwater for mag levels before adding it to the tank.
Also, please be gentle, I'm still a newbie  |
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bmac2
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:12am |
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get the temp down ASAP!! 80 is not good for anything.
I would change some water for sure. Are you adding supplements? Mag is usually used up by the system, so something had to add mag.
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reefnfeef
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:18am |
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Are you starting out with the correct amount of water for the test? When I first got red sea test kits (ca, alk, and mag) I thought they all used the same amount of water. So I tested for mag using twice the amount needed of aquarium water I and got really high readings.
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaannd.... I'm broke
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aceofspadeskb
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:25am |
I'm replacing the broken heater today. I'm not currently supplementing anything.
I am using the correct ammount of water(2 ml). I've done the test twice with the same results. The second time I was extremely vigilant in making sure I was following the directions exact.
Anyone know what the ramifications of high magnesium are?
I'll be doing a 20% water change today if the test results of the new water are okay...I'm hoping I don't have a bad batch since I can't afford more salt right now.
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bmac2
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:27am |
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reefnreef is right. the Mg test uses 2 ml, the Ca uses 5 ml. Unlike other test brands that are all set up as 5 ml for ALL tests. If you did 5 ml, that means your Mg is probably less than half that, which means very low and needs some Epson Salt put in slowly over time.
I would retest and make SURE you did the volume of water right. Also, make SURE on the Mg test you are doing all the shaking the correct amount of time as the directions say. If you don't do all the shaking then you will get wrong results.
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Softplan
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:44am |
When I first started testing for magnesium I had a old bad test and ended up dosing to 1800. I just left it and it didn't hurt anything. When I started adding sps corals it was down aroung 1600.
To see the exact level keep adding the titrate. Looking at the chart you can calculate how much each additional .01 ml represents.
I can help you with the tests if you ever make your way to Tremonton, just bring a sample. I use the Red Sea test kits also.
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aceofspadeskb
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:52am |
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I'm confident I'm using the test correctly. I used .84 ml both times. If the scale stays the same above .8 then that would put my mag level at 1680 ppm.
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Softplan
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 12:00pm |
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As far as I have seen in my tank that level should be fine. Test every 2 to 4 weeks and start dosing to keep it around 1300 to 1400 when levels drop.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 2:30pm |
I believe, from the info you provided, the reason coral are having a
little trouble is not the Mg level or at least that is only a tiny part
of the reason. An
Alk level of 7 is too low. The recommended level is 8-12 dKH and that makes
10 a good number to shoot for. I believe that low alk is the biggest
reason for the coral problem. You say that you are not adding
anything...well... it's time to start.  <Edited> Just FYI, a water change will make very little
difference. Red Sea Coral Pro has Alk of ~11.5, Ca of ~410, and Mg of ~1250. If it were my tank, I would not spend salt and time on a water change. I would just add Alk and Ca. The Mg will then be more usable by the organisms like coral, Coralline Algae, Snails, Hermits, shrimp, urchins, worms, fish, etc. Alk and Ca additives are needed. The homemade stuff works perfect. Baking soda by itself is perfectly safe and will really help immediately in this situation. See this on how to put together perfect homemade additives: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/We just discussed this recently here: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67865and it's an integral part of the Reefkeeping Tips main thread linked below in my signature line.  ** Unplug
that heater. In my experience reef aquariums do much better at 75 than
80. Set heaters for somewhere between 70-75. By the way, 72 is where
some people feel most comfortable, so there may be no need for a heater
because the room temperature keeps it there. Pumps and lights heat the
water, so starting at a low base temperature each morning helps keep the
tank from overheating past 80. A heater keeps it from falling below 70-75 during
the night and during the Utah winter. Does this make sense? Aloha, Mark 
Edited by Mark Peterson - November 23 2013 at 2:49pm
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BobC63
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 7:51pm |
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I'm still curious about the actual Mg reading. Almost 1700 ppm w/o ever dosing is highly unusual IMO...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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aceofspadeskb
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 7:57pm |
Mark,
Thanks for the info. I've been looking into starting to dose. Given my risk averse nature I plan on using BRS 2-part. Unfortunately the 2 part is currently waiting to be wrapped and put under our Christmas tree when it goes up next week so it won't be available to me until December 25. I'll look into the links you gave me and maybe find my courage to give it a try. I just fear I'll do it wrong and end up killing some of my best friends!
Thanks again! Kelley
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:40pm |
Kelley, Like Bob I am wondering about that high Mg but if nothing has been added, it's occurring naturally and cannot be too much of a problem. I believe you are performing the test correctly. There may be three things going on here. It may be high because it is building with each water change as it has not been utilized because of the low Alkalinity. It may be high because of a high concentration in the sand and/or rock. Lastly,though unlikely, it may be reading high by the test kit because of the low Alkalinity level. (Chemistry can be funny like that. The presence of some other chemical compound can make a test give results that are wacko  ) Regarding additives, you cannot do it wrong if you do a little at a time. You did good to get the test kits which have shown that Alkalinity is needed. It would be irresponsible to wait until Christmas to add the Alkalinity that the tank so desperately needs. Some coral are suffering now. Alkalinity, Calcium and all the other elements/minerals are food. You would not wait to feed your child because the food was supposed to be a Christmas gift, would you? This is not meant to frighten you, but a dKH that has fallen to 7 is serious business. I believe you said that you don't want to do extra water changes and use up the salt mix too fast. I agree. I don't spend money like that either. There is no need for that. Baking Soda mixed with Washing Soda is one part of the 2-part and the other BRS part is Calcium Chloride. Baking Soda is in your kitchen cabinet. Washing Soda is Baking Soda that has been baked for an hour, but it is not needed, not really. Baking Soda alone will do the job. Calcium Chloride is a winter Ice Melt product we can buy at the store. It's that simple. I've taught this for 20 years to hobbyists just like you. You can trust me. Read the Reefkeeping Tips thread a few posts down where I explain Alk and Ca. Yesterday I made my own Alkalinity solution. It's RO water that has as much Baking Soda in it as can dissolve. I slowly poured 1/2 cup into my 55 gal tank and it raised the Alk by about .5 dKH. Today I poured in another half cup which raises Alk to around 9. I have used these homemade solutions for years. I'm very comfortable with them. This will become comfortable to you as well. Do it. It will all be okay. My phone number is below if you want to call for support. Aloha, Mark  808-345-1049 call/text/visit anytime BTW, how is the temperature?
Edited by Mark Peterson - November 24 2013 at 12:10am
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aceofspadeskb
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Posted: November 24 2013 at 9:19am |
Temperature is down to 78. I'll drop it another 2 degrees over the next couple of days.
Your second paragraph frankly is a little uncalled for. If I was being irresponsible , I wouldn't be asking for help. I'll push forward with 2-part this week.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 24 2013 at 4:01pm |
Sorry, that was a poor choice of words. I didn't mean you are irresponsible. I was just trying to make a point about Alkalinity's importance. Aloha, Mark
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phys
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Posted: November 25 2013 at 1:46am |
I only skimmed the above comments so if I repeat stuff, oh well lol.
A level of 1600 isn't going to be a big issue. You can just wait until your corals suck the stuff out of the water and it'll also slowly come down with water changes. You may have some salt with a little extra mag in it or it wasn't mixed properly at the factory. Another thing is that you may be adding the titrant into the water too quickly and not giving it enough time to do a full reaction to have the color change take place. Try going slower and see if you get the same results.
Your corals may not be extending their polyps due to the low alk, as Mark stated. If you need a little to get you by until xmas, feel free to come pick some up for... free. lol.
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aceofspadeskb
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Posted: November 25 2013 at 8:28am |
Mark, Fair enough. To be fair to you, I read your post when I was already in a sour mood. I apologize for being grouchy. Thanks for everyone's help! Phys, Thanks for your offer. I won't be down your way for the foreseeable future. Thanks though!
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Akira
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Posted: December 10 2013 at 1:08am |
Ok just a quick note as it seems all is ok at this point. alk 10 ca 430 sg 1.024 temp 77 - 77.5 mg 1470
All tested at lfs to verify my results , po4 ph etc all fine before i get asked.
all seems fine ? well guess what , my frog spawn some zoo's etc were really ticked off . frog spawn was receded almost dead.
I did several water changes and all params about the same ..HMMMMMM
So to a new low mg salt I go , weird but at 1250-1350 all my stuff was on happy pills. So I guess all tanks are different or maybe my new salt had something my other salt didn't go figure.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: December 10 2013 at 9:40am |
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I missed all this before... But I've run my tank at eighty five degrees for many years, and I think mag in the 1800 range is fine.
Adam
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