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a break-through!

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Humuhumu View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 15 2009 at 1:31am
Ok, so on my 12g I've been trying to find a cheap DIY tidal/wave maker so to make it more realilistic and maybe make the corals happier. All I've found have been big contraptions or totally overkill for a 12-24gal tank. So here is my idea. But first I have been searching online for an hour and haven't found a non industrial version of what I need so tomorrow I'll check out Home Depot.
 
Idea:
 
Plume your pump into a 3-way solenoid! One side is always normally open and the other is normally closed. On the outputs take Loc-Line (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?Category=Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Plumbing_Parts&SearchText=&IdCategory=FIFT&itemsonpage=60&sort=description&pageindex=0&parsed=1&vendorcode=LL&vendorname=Loc-Line) and run two different water nozzles at seperate locations. You should only need a "wall-wart" 12VDC power supply to run a 555timer circuit to occilate the solenoid. If for some reason it fails, the pump will still have one output. I am making sure I find a potable rated solenoid or there may be greases/oils inside the bodys.
 
Thoughts?
 
I hope I'm making sense. It seems perfect to me and amazingly simple! patent pending Wink


Edited by Humuhumukununukuapua - January 15 2009 at 1:34am
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Corey Price View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corey Price Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 7:28am
Most solenoid-actuated three-way valves are industrial. Hayward makes what you're looking for in 3/4 and 1" versions, but get ready to fork over the money.
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 9:13am
I have the answer and it costs practically nothing.
Now you are probably saying, "Hey if it costs nothing, then how could it possibly be any good?"
It is an idea that came from our resident Chemical Engineer, JFinch. I call it the Poormans Wavemaker to describe the low cost. For efficiency, it can give any small tank the same kind of variable flow of any of the high priced stuff that the "big boys" use on their big tanks.
Looking for the link...here it is:
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21646
I believe that any size Maxijet will work for this. The smaller sizes for the smaller tanks. Probably a MJ600 for your 12 gal.




Edited by Mark Peterson - January 15 2009 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Humuhumu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Corey Price Corey Price wrote:

Most solenoid-actuated three-way valves are industrial. Hayward makes what you're looking for in 3/4 and 1" versions, but get ready to fork over the money.
I've found a few and they dont seem too expensive but they hard to get your hands on without being a bulk buyer. I'm think there is some pluming parts that I can make a varlve and strap a generic solenoid on. I'll get bored today and run to the hardware store to see what I can cook up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Humuhumu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 5:09pm
So a little update. The valves are too difficult to find that will meet my needs without paying alot to have a specialty one ordered. I looked into garden auto sprinkler control valves which are solenoid controlled. The problem with those is they a latched valve and will need constant current to remain open.
 
At this point I am think that 2 quarter turn valves with RC car gears attached and a simple 9-12V motor on a 555 pulse timer would do the trick. I bought some loc-line today to have even if this doesn't work out. Trying to find easily turned quarter turn valves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corey Price Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 6:28pm
You might try to watch Ebay for something...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Humuhumu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 8:39pm
ok, problem solved. I was looking at fish food and came across this!
 
 
No electriciy and exactly what I was thinking! Why reinvent the wheel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Morrill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 9:03am
Try a local shop, Steve Regans.  They have some cool stuff there. Also Granger supply.
WHAT KINDA GUM????... Give em 2 sticks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 9:24am
You shortened your nameSmile
The reason nobody suggested that device to you was because it will not work for your application. It requires a pretty high flow to make it work. Much more flow than you would want for a 12 gal. And to tell you the truth, I've never seen flow that I liked come out of a SCWD. It takes so much energy to do the switching one side to the other, that the flow coming out of it is dismal. Also, it often switches sides too fast. It just starts to create a good flow when it switches and has to start all over to create a decent current within the tank.

As JFinch pointed out in the other thread, good flow in one direction is not all that bad. Yet it was he that showed us the "Poormans Wavemaker". It is awesome. Perhaps I should call it the "Tidal Flow Maxijet". There are four advantages:
 - The flow that comes out of that larger hole where the nozzle is cut off is actually stronger.
 - The directional flow changes by 90 degrees each switch.
 - The frequency of switching is set by you. (I like it to mimick the tides, switching every 6 hours.
 - The Maxijet is the only pump I know of that can handle the on-off cycle without wearing out or failing prematurely.

This strong flow from opposing directions is a benefit because coral need water flow from one direction for long enough to wash away their waste and bring them food and then need the same from the other direction. Dana Riddle extolled the benefits of this in his first book, The Captive Reef.


Your interest in coming up with something revolutionary is admirable. Keep at it.Smile


Edited by Mark Peterson - January 16 2009 at 9:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 9:38am
I'm more interested in your circuit layout for the 555 timer IC.  Do you do electrical design?
 
BTW Mark, I might have introduced the switching powerhead idea to this board, but I'm pretty sure I came across it from somewhere else but don't remember where.  I still like using these modified powerheads!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Humuhumu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2009 at 7:01pm
I'm very familiar with a 555. Luckily I'm a electronics tech/engineer. But the 555 or 666 will only do one time cycle period. A micro process would allot complete programming of lighting and water controll for a complete seasonal cycles. I've been thinking about messing with one on my bored time.
 
My only concern is proper control over 120AC with DC and not burning down the house! Relays are the obvious but if they fail........ I'm thinking opto-isolators. or SCRs. Anywho, my biggest holdup is I don't know the seasons of the ocean. If you, jfinch, know I would love to work with you a little and figure out a cycle then run it on a micro computer. I think the programming would be relatively easy.
 
thoughts?
Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2009 at 1:03am
Teach me about the timer (I'm a chem e not ee, know little about circuit design, but really like this stuff).  I built a circuit in the past to control a servo using it, but I just following someone else's schematic.  I'm partial to relays mainly 'cause that's what I know.  I don't know about ocean cycles, but I think if you could just make it cycle you'd be doing better then most.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2009 at 9:59am
The ocean cycle is the lunar cycle or to make it simpler, the tides. There are programs for that somewhere. But we have found that the tank doesn't need it that special. Just set it to alternate 4x/day, approximately every six hours is how often the tide changes direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Humuhumu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2009 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

The ocean cycle is the lunar cycle or to make it simpler, the tides. There are programs for that somewhere. But we have found that the tank doesn't need it that special. Just set it to alternate 4x/day, approximately every six hours is how often the tide changes direction.
LOL I come from WA and the San Juan Islands. I know all about tides and being lunar. Tongue But at the tropical regions I'm sure they aren't as drastic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Humuhumu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2009 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by jfinch jfinch wrote:

Teach me about the timer (I'm a chem e not ee, know little about circuit design, but really like this stuff).  I built a circuit in the past to control a servo using it, but I just following someone else's schematic.  I'm partial to relays mainly 'cause that's what I know.  I don't know about ocean cycles, but I think if you could just make it cycle you'd be doing better then most.
 
Ok, I'll give a brief rundown. Honestly, I haven't worked with them in a while so I may be a little off  - try googling "555 timer schematic". So the 555 (and 556 which is dual) runs off of two resistors and one capacitor. And somewhere out there is a formular to find out which combination of cap/risistor will determine your pulse frequency. The second resistor determins your pulse width - you don't have to have a 50/50 cycle. Thats pretty much it. So you'll need really big values for all resistors and caps to have a six hour cycle. I think equal resistor values is a 50/50 cycle.
 
Now to controll two relays running on opposite cycles I would take the output pin of the 555 and connect it to one NPN transistor and one PNP transistor. Each would connect to a relay. NPN requires positive voltage to activate and PNP requires ground voltage to activate. So by using the two transistors on one line one transistor is always off and one is always on. There is a little bit work work invovled but not much more. You would need to attach a resistor from the "gate leg" of the transistor the ground to force a low when the 555 is not high.
 
I hope that makes since - I'm not a good explainer in writing. Let me know if something is unclear. Cheers!
 
-bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2009 at 11:36pm
I think you could actually do away with one of the transistors since the relay has NO and NC contacts.  I'm sure I'll have questions, but I need to look up some 555 timer circuits and see if I understand 'em.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Humuhumu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2009 at 12:21pm

The reason for both transistors also, is they have over current protection in must of them...

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