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Jasob 
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 Topic: Auto Topoff
Posted: April 06 2006 at 12:20pm |
So I just planned a 3 or 4 day trip next weekend and just ran into a small problem. If my tank goes more than 2 days without top off water the small area my pump is in is going to run dry.
I need to get off my butt and get my auto top off going. My idea is to splice in a line off my RO system and run it across the room (hidden underneath the floorboards hopefully...) I would like a float switch to open a solenoid to allow water in at a certain level and then another float switch to turn it off so I'm only pumping water every 10 hours or so. Also I'll probably put a redundancy switch up higher in the sump so it will completely shutoff the system just in case.
Just thinking about it I'm thinking I'll need 3 float switches, 1 relay and one solenoid, wiring and a bit of time pounding my head against the wall wiring up, and a cord for power. I would like to get started on this project Saturday night so we can monitor it at least a week before we leave. Unfortunately this isn't going to give me any time to order online and need to find a local source for the materials.
So I guess when it comes down to it I need to know where to go and instead of getting funny looks from the people when I tell them what I'm doing I need to know what kind of solenoids and relays I'll need. Also I'm a bit confused on the power cord and if I'll need any power converters. Only relays I've ever worked with are 12v relays. Any help would be much appreciated on this. I'll be at the meeting if anyone has any extra parts laying around they'd like to sell.
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Jason
Tooele, UT
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dnellans
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 12:28pm |
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Jason, i've been going through the same struggle as you, weather to wire up something fancy or not.
in the end i've decided to just go with a plain old kent swamp cooler style float valve. i read a bunch on the web and it sounds like the reed switches are a bit tempermental and when they do fail they almost always fail in the on position. this was my main concern.
i did a TDS measure on my RO for the "first cup" versus the 2nd gallon and found the difference in the TDS of the water to be negligable (though both were a bit high, maybe time to replace my membrane). So for me at least, the benefit of having it put more water in at one time, didn't make up for the increased hassle of all the soldering and the potential for it getting stuck in the on position.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 12:32pm |
Dave-
It is funny because with a few of my tanks I've had the opposite concern. I'm worried they may get stuck off, and not on. For me if it dumps in all the water I have in the resevoir it isn't a big deal. But if the sump goes dry and the pumps are out of water I'm worried.
So I'd rather have it stay on than stay off.
Adam
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dnellans
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 12:37pm |
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If my sump runs dry and i burn up a $200 pump, oh well, i'm out a $200 pump and it will take a day or two to replace it. the tank is fine because i've got 3600gph of closed loop at anytime.
if it floods on and ruins $2000 worth of hardwood flooring and moulding, kills everything in the tank due to salinity change, and so on... oh well, i'm out of this hobby =(
i'm just taking the lesser of two evils i guess.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 12:37pm |
Jason, I have a used float valve for trade that I can bring.
Mike
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jfinch
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 1:00pm |
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If you decide to go with float switches and soleniod valve (which is what I use) and need them quick they can be purchased locally from Grainger Supply. But they'll be much more expensive then if bought on-line. Also for wiring, do a search for an auto top-off thread started by me in the DIY forum.
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dnellans
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 1:03pm |
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Jon have you had any issues with your setup yet and/or would you do it differently next time if you had to? I'm still not totally sold on either setup and might try your setup on a water container just to test it out.
-dwn
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jfinch
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 1:16pm |
I'm completely happy with my set-up. I've had zero issues with it over the past couple years (I can't say the same about anything else in my reef tank system). I use the "pump up" top-off system on both my sump and the RO water for my kalk reactor.
I have had problems with using just a single float switch connected to a powerhead in a bucket of water method. Twice I fussed the reed switch. First time resulted in an empty sump. Second time it pumped all the water from the bucket into the sump (didn't overfill, thank goodness!). I would not recommend that set-up by itself. It needs a capacitor and resistor jumpered over the float switch to protect it. I didn't know this at the time.
And if you go the solenoid route some people have had problems with the solenoid buzzing and failing (gets hot) because power is cycling rapidly to it due to using a single float switch. So solenoid=2 float switches.
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Jasob
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 1:51pm |
Mike, thanks for the offer of the float valve. I'm not quite sure on the dimensions of that but I've got limited space in the sump. To get an idea I've got a mag 7 abnd small Rio pump running my Phosban reactor. With those in their I've got about 2 inches around the pumps. So I'm trying to figure a pretty small design.
Jfinch I was hoping you'd find this thread. I've had the instructions for some top off ideas from your presentation a couple months back. So far the two (or 3) float switches are going to be the way to go for me, due to the space. Seems like the only thing I may have an issue with is finding a nice looking acrylic bracket like you have your valves on!
Unfortunately I need to get this project done Saturday night or Sunday morning so I'm going to have to shell out the big bucks at Grainger supply... Thanks for the suggestions and info. Also it seems like the wiring will be easy enough, I'm just assuming I can use a plug from an extension cord or old lamp that I'm not using anymore?
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Jason
Tooele, UT
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 1:54pm |
Sounds to me like you have plenty of time.
You're in Tooele! Just have someone come over and watch your tnk a couple times until you get back. To me that is a whole lot safer than installing a new float system then heading out of town.
Adam
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Jasob
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 2:06pm |
I've considered asking someone for a favor. Angel lives just a couple blocks away and top off is only really necessary once a day. I've just wanted an auto top off for awhile and this would be great time to do it. I'm usually confident enough in my projects that if it doesn't fail within the first 24 hours than it's going to be good so I think 5 days should be enough.
I'd also hate the responsibility of looking over someones tank while they're out of town.. (Even though I'm only going up to Park City  ) I also figure if something were to happen on a normal day noone would notice until it's a catastrophic failure anyway since I'm hardly ever home as it is. 
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Jason
Tooele, UT
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Mike Savage
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 3:13pm |
 Jasob wrote:
I've just wanted an auto top off for awhile and this would be great time to do it. |
Nothing like a deadline to get you motivated; at least it works wonders for me.
Mike
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unixnum1
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 4:17pm |
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This is what I did and works great.
I just bought the switches from them and got the relay from radio shack.
http://www.aquahub.com/store/doityourself.html
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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Angel
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 9:23am |
If you want, I can stop off while you're away. I'm not super experienced but might be able to recognize a catastrophy.
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Connie
Tooele
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Jasob
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 12:08pm |
Thanks for the offer Connie. One of my friends is thinking about coming out this weekend and if I can't get it setup he said he doesn't have anything better to do than stay at my house and use my internet for a game we play, so I should be ok.
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Jason
Tooele, UT
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Shane H
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 4:08pm |
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Jason - I'm with Adam ...
DO NOT MAKE A MAJOR MODIFICATION AND THEN GO OUT OF TOWN!
Until you're confident in your new top off system, have someone come over and pour water into your tank. If I were closer, I'd volunteer.
Good luck.
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Angel
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 4:12pm |
You can leave him my number if you like, and if he has a question I'll..... post it here.
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Connie
Tooele
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fj40fax
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Posted: September 11 2006 at 1:10pm |
jfinch wrote:
If you decide to go with float switches and soleniod
valve (which is what I use) and need them quick they can be purchased
locally from Grainger Supply. But they'll be much more expensive
then if bought on-line. Also for wiring, do a search for an auto
top-off thread started by me in the DIY forum. |
Can you link to that thread Jon? I cannot seem to get a search to
turn it up, thanks. I am thinking of using your top off to stir a
kalk reactorish thing.
Thanks,
Fax
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Fax 318-3632
90g 2x250W 14kK MH
Sump, Fuge, G3, UV, O3, ACIII
Pleasant Grove, UT Across State Street from the Purple Turtle
Adjustments and Massages for Frags!
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jfinch
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Posted: September 11 2006 at 2:25pm |
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