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willi 
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Joined: April 29 2004
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 Topic: Backflow
Posted: May 05 2004 at 2:05pm |
I just fired up my sump for the first time and everything looked good. So, I cut the power to make sure that the sump wouldn't overflow. Well it did overflow. I think that it back siphioned through my return pipes. Should i just get a bigger sump or should i put a one way valve in the return line. If any one else has experienced this problem. Please let me know what your solution was.
Thanks, Lance
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Richard L.
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Posted: May 05 2004 at 2:29pm |
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Drill a siphon break hole just below the water line in your return lines. Angle the hole down at 45 degrees. If multiple lines, each must have this hole.
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Richard
Alpine, UT
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jfinch
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Posted: May 05 2004 at 2:35pm |
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The easiest solution is to break the syphon on the pump return line. Drill a small (1/8" - 1/4") hole in your return just below the normal water level. This hole will stop the back syphon fairly quickly. Or you could place your pump outlet just barely under the water. This will do the same thing.
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rstruhs
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Posted: May 05 2004 at 4:24pm |
I put a check valve in right after the pump, that way I don't even have the water from the lines coming back in. My sump is fairly small so I do not have much difference between my "min" and "MAX" levels on it! Maybe some day I'll get a bigger sump for that tank.
The only issue (I believe) you will hear is that a check valve causes a loss of pressure/volume. You have to make the decision as to what will work the best for you.
Good luck.
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Rodney, Sandra, Jeffery, and Laura Struhs
South Jordan, Utah 98th South & 40th West.
(801) 282-2744
75 gallon reef
55 gallon reef
55 gallon FOWLR
20 gallon FOWLR
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jfinch
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Posted: May 05 2004 at 5:12pm |
Check valves are a fine addition to the system (get the ones with a swing check rather then springs, imo) but I would never put all my trust in one.
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kd7hfw
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 6:51am |
If in doubt ..... do both the check valve and drill it (just to be safe) 
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You shouldn't be afraid of noises in the dark.
Anything that wants to cause you harm will stalk you silently.
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Jared Wood
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 7:42am |
I would go with the drill idea. Just remember that where ever you drill the hole there will be a water spout so it needs to point into the tank.
Here is one of my nifty diagrams. You can drill in either of these spots to create the siphon break. Just remember that when your pump is on, water will be shooting out of the hole. (I hope that someday my diagrams will be famous.)
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In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth ... then He let it cycle. Have you read my dinosaur theory yet?
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 7:46am |
 jfinch wrote:
Check valves are a fine addition to the system (get the ones with a swing check rather then springs, imo) but I would never put all my trust in one.
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I agree with Jon. I would add a check valve (swing valves are much better then spring valves, as Jon mentioned), but would also drill the holes in the returns.
I have seen one to many check valves fail.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 8:47am |
jfinch wrote:
 Or you could place your pump outlet just barely under the water. This will do the same thing. |
Jon has mentioned the best solution to two problems. When one or more outlets are placed just below the water surface, the aeration benefits are superb. In almost every case that I have advised on, where low pH was a problem, the problem was rectified by moving just one outlet up to the surface so that the water does a kind of rolling movement, like river rapids. This movement creates excellent gas exchange which greatly helps pH.
The bonus feature is that it breaks the siphon without the need for pluggable drilled holes or unreliable checkvalves! Drilled holes will fail when overgrown with algae or plugged by the occasional snail. (it happens more often than you would guess)
I personally like the water flow created when two outlets or powerheads situated at opposite ends of the tank are directed at each other. The water is more turbulant this way. The next step up is to use a Seaswirl or wavemaking device. Marine Aquatics sells a nifty device that I have read about here but not yet seen in action.
Edited by Mark Peterson
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Jared Wood
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 1:13pm |
Aren't there benefits to returning the water to the bottom of the tank are removing from the top. I would think it would give you better water cycling. Is that not as important?
If you have powerheads rolling water on top, or lets say you do that in your sump. Can an arguement be made that returning water to the bottom and overflowing off the top is better then returning water to the top?
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In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth ... then He let it cycle. Have you read my dinosaur theory yet?
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willi
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 6:28pm |
I did the hole idea and seem to be working great. But now i have gurgling in the overflow to were it connects with my return line
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 11:31pm |
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To answer Jared's question, the water starts on top but ends up following a circular path. As it hits the wall of the tank, it goes down and around then back up to the overflow. This works especially good when the flows hit each other. Experimenting with what arrangement makes the best water motion is something that I recommend with any tank. Having the top water rippling has always been important to me. It's like the natural ocean waves aerating the water. Circulation is important when it takes well aerated water down to the bottom of the tank.
You know, as I think about it, I'd say this could be classified as an important advanced reefkeeping tip that each hobbyist ought to learn at some point along the way. It isn't something spoken of much to beginners because there is so much more basic stuff to learn. In this case for instance, Willi just needs to know how not to overflow his sump! Learning about aeration and circulation will come in time.
Edited by Mark Peterson
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