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Water Changes

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Suzy View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 19 2003 at 6:16am
Hi, WMAS People! One of the other treads got me wondering about water changes. As you might know, I didn't do any for a while in our big tank 'cause our specs were always good. I was thinking water changes were for reducing nitrate, and why would I want to take out all that expensive crap I was adding? Then this spring, it started bugging me that calerpa wouldn't grow (You know that weed that grew outta control and wiped out all those reefs in Europe and California?)So I started doing 10% water changes every week.Didn't help.Then I started adding iron, got a test kit and finally got a level that showed up in the test tube. Calerpa grows now. So now I'm getting lazy with the stinkin' water changes! So 2 questions: Why do water changes, and how often?
I know Mark does like daily changes 'cause you're adding green water, right? What about the top off water we're adding? With the fans on , I need to replace like a gallon a day Does that count, 'cause I'm not actually removing anything....?.
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John Fletcher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Fletcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2003 at 7:49am
Suzy, I did a water change about every two - three months. I would change about 10 - 15% of the water and watch my inhabitants go through the biggest stress of their lives. I e-mailed Eric Hugo Borneman with that same question. He said that I should not stress everybody out so bad, that I could do a 5 gal water change every two weeks on my 54 gal. tank (that is too easy, that would be MORE than enough in terms of both controlling nutrients, providing the important calcium and carbonate components, and way more than enough in terms of trace and minor elements. So I did it and you would not believe the difference.

If you are considering just using your evaporated water as a water change. You are not exporting the nasty stuff and replaceing it with good clean stuff. There needs to be a replacement of old with new.


Edited by John Fletcher
John Fletcher

20 years experience

(Tank of the Month for May 2003)Taking a little break...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2003 at 8:29am
Suzy -

I'm in the same boat, because of the size of our tanks. However, I've found a very easy way to do this. I went and bought two 30 gallon garbage cans. The first time I did the change, I mixed up the water in one garbage can. Got a 100 ft. acrylic hose and hooked a cheap $25 Rio pump to the end and run the hose out to the 2nd garbage can and let the pump rip. Being a small pump it will take a few minutes, but let it fill up to the same location you have the 1st can mixed up to.(this is getting wordy, sorry). I did this so I could then make a small mark on the tank to know where this is. Then with a short hose hook the pump on and drop it in your new water and drop it in the tank. After that I just run the hose out to the gutter.

Doing it this way with anywhere from a 15 to 30 gal. change takes me maybe an hour now and little stress to the fish.

I know there are those that don't, but I'm in the same thought process as Mark. I believe water changes are vital!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2003 at 10:10am
Suzy,
I do not do water changes at all. Haven't done one in over a year and my tank is thriving. I do believe you do need to get the bad stuff out and for that I use protien skimming and a very high grade of carbon called chemi-pure. You can find more info here: http://www.boydenterprisesonline.com/chemipure.html
I also use an ecosystem type of sump that I built.

Edited by KeoDog
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Suzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2003 at 4:06pm
What's an ecosytem type of sump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2003 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Suzy Suzy wrote:

So 2 questions: Why do water changes, and how often?
I know Mark does like daily changes 'cause you're adding green water, right? What about the top off water we're adding? With the fans on , I need to replace like a gallon a day Does that count, 'cause I'm not actually removing anything....?.


Why? Major and minor elements are being depleted from your tank water. You can try to maintain these elements by direct addition of these elements (Ca, Alk, Mg, Sr, I, B, and a myriad of other small players), or you can try to maintain them by doing water changes. It's hard to keep up with Ca/Alk doing just water changes, but the other elements can be kept closer to artificial seawater levels this way because they are depleted so slowly. The other reason is to remove compounds that may be released by tank inhabitants that may be toxic/irritant to other inhabitants. Some people swear by water changes, others do them very infrequent. I personally try to do a 10-25% change every month (actually, like Mark, I add about a pint per day of home grown phyto and remove a pint of tank water... so I'm doing small daily water changes too). Also, watch your tank, it will tell you if there's something "wrong". The first step to fixing the problem can, and often is, doing a water change.

No, your make-up water does not count as a water change.
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KeoDog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2003 at 8:20pm
Here is a link to Ecosystems: http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/marineProducts.html
Both Bird World and Aquatica sell these. Basically just a sump with a refugium in the middle.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2003 at 9:01pm
Instant Ocean's Tom Frakes, himself a Ph.D.biologist as I recall, did a scientifically controlled study many years ago and it was reported in the literature. He found that 10% per month was the best frequency. Of course all the salt companies were in favor of this, but realistically it makes total sense for our closed systems.

I once tried an 18 month "no water change - no additives experiment" and found that the coral stopped growing and even regressed and that KH got so low that hermits couldn't live because they couldn't build exoskeletons. Sadly, I gave away a cherished four inch long Six-Line Wrasse, before I discovered the cause of hermit crab mortality.

It's neat for Keodog to say that he doesn't do water changes, but I'm suspecting that he is adding elements to make up for what's being used up.

A successful hobbyist, who also had a store for a while, believed that water changes were actually a better and cheaper form of replenishing elements, which made additives unnecessary. He was breeding clowns and selling his own propagated coral including hard coral and feather duster worms!

My opinion: Change 10% every 5 - 8 weeks

Something many people don't realize is that newly mixed saltwater is caustic...it burns. So mix the water and aerate it for a few hours or even a day before adding it. That will probably eliminate the stress mentioned by John Fletcher above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2003 at 7:33am
Mark you are right, I do add Kent's Turbo calcium, Kents Super Buffer and Epson Salts for the magnesium. About every two weeks I add a capful of Kents Essential Elements. Iodine and strontium about once a month. Thats all I add.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2003 at 9:34am
Kevin, I'm guessing you're not a fan of ionicly balanced additives? how come?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2003 at 9:43am
I used to use ESV product but go tired of dosing every day. Plus the expense is cheaper going with the Kent products. I now dose the buffer about every 3 days and calcium about once a week.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Suzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2003 at 12:58pm
Kevin, I'm thinking we were on the same page. I have every test kit invented and actually use every once in while and it seems with my additions of Kent crap everything stays OK. I even got that kalkwasser thing going. And nitrate seems controlled with the calerpa growing again and the DSB. Do you think we're ok not exporting and importing the stuff we can't test for? I'm going to just do 10% every other week for a while....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2003 at 1:04pm
IMO I think that skimming, carbon and removal of calerpa takes care of the exporting. Feeding contains most of the stuff you need to import. That is why I just occasionally add supplements.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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