Corals Dying-plz help

Good points by dlindquist and rufessor.

I need to explain why I believe the 7 dKH was the culprit for these coral. Please forgive my rambling. I hope this will make sense.

In the ocean, the water parameters, water movement, lighting, etc., etc. are all perfect and fairly constant. Our tanks are only approximations of the ocean, but sometimes they are so disparate that it is surprising anything lives in some of the tanks I've seen.

I have long espoused the idea that because we cannot possibly provide all the right conditions, like live plankton, proper water cleanliness and all the trace elements that everything needs, that some things need to be done "better" than in the ocean. Artificially maintaining Alk at around 9-10 is one of these things that seems to compensate for other shortcomings.

A tank can appear to be in pretty good shape on the surface, but when the hobbyist is unfamiliar with the proper methods of testing and dosing, I'm pretty sure that the Alk, which may have been slowly declining for months, is the problem.
Not all coral react as quickly to low Alk.
The effects of low Alk are very delayed.
Everything can look good for a while even with low Alk but then all of a sudden the entire tank crashes. I'm not just throwing out a fatalistic idea here. I've seen it many times in many hobbyists tanks.

Long ago I tried an experiment. I went a long time without water changes or supplements. After 18 months I [finally] noticed that coral had stopped growing. What caught my attention was that some coral began to decline rapidly. I resumed 10% monthly water changes. In the end it wasn't so much the lack of water changes as it was the fact that Alkalinity had dropped dangerously low. Getting Alk and Ca quickly back in line was what it took to see this tank thrive again.

Hope this helps.


Oh and the caution rufessor wrote to finish his post is perfectly in line with the information and advice I am giving, "WATCH everything -if more start going your going to have to figure out what's up and FAST."
Do not delay. Raise Alk at a rate of .5 -1.0 dKH per day ASAP until it reaches ~9 dKH
This will only take a few days. If, within a few more days, this does not stop the decline, call me or come back here with a full tank pic and we will work on the next step. Yes, there are more things we (I) can suggest. I have been at this for 20 years, very intently helping 1000's of WMAS hobbyists. This is a gift that I must share.

And here are couple more..

I have to agree with dlindquist too about ALK not being the problem. 7dkh is not low at all IMO. I have always kept my ALK between 6.5-7.5 dKH with zero negative effects. I also lost count as to how many world reknown reef tanks run their ALK at 7.

One possible problem that I see is that dosing vitamin C further damaged your already stressed corals. All in all, vitamin C is a form of carbon dosing much like dosing vodka, vinegar, sugar, etc. It is a very complicated treatment that if done even slightly incorrectly, will damage your reef. One of the things that is most overlooked and brushed off when dosing carbon sources is the real need for an oversized protein skimmer. The key word is "oversized," preferably a high quality skimmer rated for twice your water volume on a normal to heavy bioload. Here's how it works...

-You dose a carbon source into your aquarium which directly feeds the bacteria and causes a huge population bloom.
-The increased bacterial population is in dire need of nutrients so they consume tons and tons of nitrates and phosphates.
-Bacteria start to die off and that's where the oversized skimmer comes in. To suck out all the dead organisms because at that point they are just pollution.

Mark Peterson wrote: I agree with BillyC that the artificial carbon dosing method must be watched carefully and requires extra care. Han/FishnFriendz's tank is different. There has been no artificial carbon dosing. An Alk reading of 7 is low for this tank. In this situation, as in most, Alk needs to be higher to keep things doing good.

Thanks Mark. However I disagree with you when you say there has been no artificial carbon dosing.

Vitamin C dosing is a form of artificial carbon dosing. Reading back, he stated that he was dosing 1tsp/day which is a HUGE amount to start with. As with dosing other forms of carbon, you have to acclimate your tank to carbon dowsing and start with a very small amount everyday and ramp up to higher doses very slowly. I would almost bet money that 1) The poster's skimmer was not large enough to handle carbon dosing and 2) the vitamin C dosing was a huge factor with the corals dying.

Also, yes I agree that there are other ways to add carbon by using regular food. However, food also contains phosphates and other pollutants whereas sources like vinegar, vodka, sugar, vitamin c, etc, do not. To achieve the same increase in bacterial biomass by using carbon-specific sources using food, you would end up crashing the tank with fatal levels of pollutants.

I'm also curious as to what indicators led you to believe that 7dkh is low for this tank?



Edited by BillyC - May 12 2012 at 11:54am

BillyC wrote: Vitamin C dosing is a form of artificial carbon dosing. Reading back, he stated that he was dosing 1tsp/day which is a HUGE amount to start with.

Yes, but as I recall, he also said that he only dosed twice with the Vitamin C. Like was just said, it may have been a factor only because the Alk level had already been hovering on the edge of disaster for a tank with this much stony coral.
We also know that Alk drops a little at the beginning of carbon dosing. Another reason why I believe that low Alk was the determining factor.

Good.
You have increased the dosing of Alkalinity supplements but one important thing is missing from your report.  Instead of giving us the new Alkalinity reading, you gave us pH. Are you clear on the difference between Alk and pH? They are not the same thing. Before anything else, we need to know the Ak and Ca numbers. We need to know the Ca number because it is inter-related with Alk.

Well, if I were the Birdsnest I would have started screaming as soon as the flow changed. My pee&poop was no longer being blown completely away and my food was no longer being brought to me like before. Since I'm an SPS, I'm very sensitive to these things and because I was starving for Alkalinity anyway, I died.

The Sinularia will survive and be fine. It can handle these kind of temporary setbacks.

FYI, at this point, water changes are just wasting salt. It's the Alk that must be set right and not via water changes.

Are you able to check the Mg level? If not, please don't add any more Mg until knowing the level.

Oh I'm so sorry for this situation.
It can be quickly remedied with the Alk and Ca supplements.
Ca can be raised by 100 ppm per day, so it's time to let go of your fear of causing problems to the tank.
The Alk is in the safe range now but will drop fast as you increase CA. 150 ppm is 8.4 dKH
Alk and Ca are like on a teeter totter that must be tested each day as you are adding one or the other, or both to get them up and keep them up within range
Alk 150-250 ppm
Ca 350-500 ppm

We are here to help for the long run. 

I thought you guys gonna hit me hard with that Calcium level.  In contrast, you folks have encouraged me to keep going on this tough road.  FYI, I just placed order these supplements from Bulkreefsupply.

Glad to see that you feel encouraged. This is a great hobby, especially with the excellent help here in the WMAS.

As you may have read in the WMAS Reefkeeping Tips thread, Alk supplement is as easy as Baking Soda. Seriously, it's that easy. Baking Soda is the chemical used in all Alkalinity supplements. It's dirt cheap at the grocery store.

Regarding something said above about Kalkwasser. It should not be used to raise the Calcium. Kalkwasser is a different "animal". It is a very strong chemical and should only be used with caution after careful study. It is a means to partially maintain both Alk and Ca after proper adjustment with appropriate individual Alk supplement and individual Ca supplement.

Hello Mr. FishnFriendz,

Shame on you for your calcium level. LOL. JK. How are you Mr. Han?