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Which fish to get?

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Diverdan View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 10 2003 at 2:16pm

I need to make a change and remove a flame angel from my tank. It has started to "eye" the corals and has picked once or twice. I just don't trust it anymore.

Here are my details. I am looking for suggestions on a completely reef safe fish that is compatile with the following.

75 Gallon tank, 100 pounds live rock or so.

Fish; 2 regal tangs, 3 to 4 inches each, 1 yellow tang, about 3 inches, true percula clown, clown goby and a pajama cardinal.

Corals; Frogspawn, colt coral, kenya tree coral, mushrooms, green star polyps, two gorognian type corals (from Garf??), lobophylia, plate coral, galaxea, green button polyps and Anthelia.

Also a feather duster, lots of snails, hermits, two emerald crabs, and a sand sifting starfish.

Let me know what is your favorite addition to the tank.

Thanks,

Rich

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Flaz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2003 at 2:29pm
Go for any Anthias, they make a great addition to a reef tank and are very peaceful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2003 at 3:08pm

How 'bout:  http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=359

If that won't work for you, I second Flaz, get some anthias.  I really like blennys too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2003 at 3:12pm

Local stores have them for well under half that cost.  I've had some.  (I know you were kidding Jon).  Diverdan- with your tank, you could get anything.  A better question would have been "what should I not buy" because I would recommend you go buy whatever you want. 

Adam

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Diverdan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diverdan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2003 at 4:28pm

Sweet, I've always wanted a barracuda.

Any one know if any stores around have anthias and what is the apropriate price? That was actually a fish I was thinking about.

-Rich

One of the reasons I am asking is because my wife gets mad at me because we go to the store and all the fish she wants, I have to say no for some reason (ie not reef safe or tang issues.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2003 at 8:39pm

Rich - I've seen them at both Bird World and Mountain Shadow for around $35.  I think the last time I was at the Pet Factory they had a few too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Firefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2003 at 5:23pm
Square Spot Anthias are great!  I had one that died, and then another that died, and then I decided not to do the square spots anymore just cause I was having bad luck.  I really don't think that they would be that difficult to keep, I just bought a few with problems.  I now have a female and a male Squamipinnis.......very, very hardy fish.  I'll take your Flame Angel!!!!  I have a tank that is just right for him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diverdan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2003 at 8:30am

I would give up the flame angel for the right coral or price, I was hoping to use the trade in value towards the new fish. The angel is very healthy and about 3 to 4 inches long. IT has nibbled at a few corals, but I can't see any visible damage, except my toadstool leather has not extended its polyps in about a week.

Now I just have to figure out how to catch.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2003 at 8:58am
Diverdan - I still have Mark's fish trap that has worked great for me.  Sorry Mark - I haven't got it back to you yet.  If Mark is willing to let you borrow it it has worked great for me.  I just have one domino damsel left that I can't seem to catch no matter what.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2003 at 7:30pm

I'm surprised at how quick everyone just agreed that the fish should be replaced.

Why is it wanting to eat the coral? What is missing in it's diet or in the tank? I'll bet that there isn't enough algae! I'll eat my hat if that's not the answer. Diverdan, You have three tangs in a 75 gallon tank! Unless your tank is a couple years old and you have a healthy growth of algae, your fish are begging for it. Wouldn't you rather lose a tang or two than the gorgeous Flame Angel. Is it likely your wife feels the same?

I don't care if you lose the Angel, but just wanted to educate everyone about what's really going on in your tank.

P.S. Ryan, when you bring the fertilizer can you also bring the fish trap?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2003 at 6:16pm
Mark - Yeah, sorry I've had it so long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2003 at 10:10pm

So, Mark, what you're saying is a well-fed flame angel won't eat corals?  I've suspected that, but I've just read too many people say their dwarf angel nibbles, so I haven't wanted to risk it.

I certainly don't have enough algae growing on my rocks yet, but would a daily feeding of nori along with my daily feeding of frozen foods be sufficient?  Would there be anything else I would need to feed?

Thanks, Mark!

-Tom

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diverdan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2003 at 9:43am

Mark,

You are right there is not enough algae growing naturally to keep the tangs and the Flame angel well fed. The tank is one and a half years old. I am glad that there is not enough algae to feed them, I have worked very hard to get my tank that way.

I feed the fish very well, but I can not recreate their natural eating habits in my tank, nor can anyone else, I don't think.

To keep the diet well balanced, I feed flake food, both the veggie for tangs and the regular kind. I feed nori, and I feed both mysis shrimp and brine shrimp. I personally think I overfeed the tank, but I like to see all my fish fat and happy.

Anyways, I am just trying to say that I don't know how to feed the Flame angel any better, without having a tank full of algae. Even though, I would suspect that it would be gone in a few weeks and the angel would start picking at any and everything.

Rich

Tom,

To answer your question, from my experiance, it is in the Flame Angels nature to feed all day. I keep mine well fed and he still swims around and picks here and there at some corals. It has yet to do any real damage, as I don't think it is hungry and needs the coral for food, it is just its nature. So, no I wouldn't risk it and I will not risk it again.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2003 at 5:33pm
Mark, I agree with you.  I have had flame angels and coral beauty angels.  I have never seen them pick my clam mantles nor any of my corals.  I feed the crap out of my tank.  I feed flake, brine (mixed with Zoe), and krill.  Maybe this is not the norm, but I would consider coral beauty and flame angels reef safe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2003 at 5:35pm
Another thought...  Just because I haven't seen them doing it, doesn't mean that they weren't picking at things.  But even if they were, I didn't notice it so it doesn't bother me.  Maybe one day that opinion will change, but for now they are reef safe in my book.
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2003 at 8:07pm

The following advice may only be worth the paper it's written on!

An extremely algae free tank may be stressful to algae eaters even if feeding on Norii. That's not their natural food and as previously stated, they pick all day. They pick until they get the food they want and then it starts all over the next day! We are lucky that many of the fish we keep are so omnivorous and that there is such a variety of foods available today.

Although I too feed some flake food, my opinion is that prepared flake and pellet foods are mostly filler. It is like feeding bread to ducks. They still need to eat natural live greens or they get sick.

Norii is good but probably doesn't satisfy the Flame Angel as well as it does the Tangs. There is a soft algae and bacterial slime that grows daily on almost all the surfaces especially the rocks. It is almost invisible to us but algae eating fish sort of "lick" it off the surfaces daily. If there are too many fish competing for this, they start to lick at other surfaces that have other sources of algae. Some of those sources are coral that may be disposing of some zooxanthellae along with daily mucous.

I believe this mucous is what any dwarf angel is eating if it is like all the others I have ever seen. It is possible that without any seeming provocation, the coral polyps themselves will become food. But my opinion is that the provocation was the hobbyist adding too many fish or too little nutrients for algal growth or too little surface for algal growth, or the incorrect lighting (too dark or too bright) to grow the natural slime they like.

The same principle can be seen in how we used to be told to stay away from Butterflyfish because they ate coral polyps. Well, now we are seeing more and more people able to successfully keep some of the Butterflyfish. These hobbyists are allowing their reefs to grow more naturally and "lo and behold" the Butterfly's are not eating the coral!

It wasn't too long ago that people couldn't keep coral alive because they were trying to keep tanks too "clean".

Algae does not have to overgrow and become "a tank full of algae" as stated in an earlier post, but we might want to accept that algae is one of our tanks "best friends" and does serve a useful purpose and need not be frightening nor an eyesore.

Many hobbyists keep a beautiful growth of caulerpa macroalgae. I enjoy my red grape algae and am happy that it doesn't require harvesting like caulerpa. A small mat of bright green cyanobacteria in a friends tank looks nice, is serving a useful purpose and may never get out of control It's been there for over six months now. If it does start to cover more surfaces we will just stop feeding for a few days to a week and the tank may again surprise us at how well it is able to self-correct.

One of the marvelous things about a refugium is that the algae can take over there and be allowed to do it's job while the main tank stays pristine and manicured the way some of us like to see things.

My 2 cents worth.

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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2003 at 8:11pm
I should also mention that snails and crabs are strong competitors for this same algal bacterial growth.
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