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 Topic: What Chemicals do you dose?
Posted: December 08 2008 at 4:05pm |
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Not sure if this is the right place for this, but what all do you guys dose in your tanks? I have been skimmerless for years but have always had a battle with nitrates, so i am trying the skimmer route, but worried i will need to start adding chemicals to replace whats being removed. I only keep soft corals nothing crazy, but would like to get a torch here pretty soon. What if anything should i be concerned with?
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Mike Savage
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 5:39pm |
I only dose what I test for. Calcium, Alkalinity, Salinity.
Mike
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 6:03pm |
 Mike Savage wrote:
I only dose what I test for. Calcium, Alkalinity, Salinity.
Mike |
I love it. Me too. Although I am not sure if you can really call adding salt "dosing".
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 6:25pm |
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So all those trace minerals and stuff are pointless?
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 9:23pm |
05gtiguy wrote:
So all those trace minerals and stuff are pointless? |
IMHO, for the most part yes. Here is what I think is important, in this order.
Salinity (not an additive), Alkalinity, Calcium, & Magnesium. You can get all the other trace elements with a periodic water change.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 9:27pm |
I agree. I do test for Magnesium once in a while but have seldom needed it.
(I also test for heat and have to add it regularly to my tank that is lit by LEDs.  )
Mike
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 11:04am |
05gtiguy wrote:
...I have been skimmerless for years but have always had a battle with nitrates, so i am trying the skimmer route... |
Mike's post was simple but elaborate  What is the Nitrate level? How do the coral look? Can you post a pic? And before doing anything further what are the levels of Alk and Ca? Skimmers are wonderful. Have you considered the alternatives?
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 11:39am |
What is the Nitrate level? they are steady at about 40 no matter how many water changes i do
How do the coral look? What i have look fine, they grow like crazy, but we are talking about pom pom, differant types of mushrooms, kenya tree
Can you post a pic? I can when i get home
And before doing anything further what are the levels of Alk and Ca? I will be honest I dont test anymore as they were always stable and with my water changes never worried about it, and i dont have anything that needs calcuim
Skimmers are wonderful. Have you considered the alternatives? Not sure what else i could do? I have a small HOB refugium with same celerpa(spelling), run carbon, tons of LR and about a 3" sandbed
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CrimsRayne
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 12:43pm |
05gtiguy wrote:
So all those trace minerals and stuff are pointless? |
Not all of them IMO
I use several various additives (iodine for my 180g zoanthid tank, strontium for my tanks with LPS) sparingly (about once every 3 weeks) in my large reef tanks. I also use some of the coral excel (no it doesn't increase coral growth but they do like it) and (chroma, phyto, zoo)plex on occasion (every 2-3 weeks) as a treat. 
I don't do frequent water changes (Why? Because my tanks have been better since I cut back on water changes. It's not the same for everyone)
I DO have to top off at rate of about a gallon day for the large tanks. (So there is still the new water going in)
Other than that I of course make sure that the calcium, alk, and mag are all balanced.
A general rule of thumb when it somes to some of the additives is: If you can't test for it, don't add it.
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"What we know from this hobby is too hard to share with the people who just want to look and not get wet." -Rioreefer
"The Puffer Girl"
Zoo freak :)
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mr_tongate
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 12:52pm |
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posting pic's look in sig \/
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220 reef
cell# 760.684.6122
POSTING PIC'S
http://zip-zero.com/wmas/imageUpload.php
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 6:49pm |
05gtiguy wrote:
What is the Nitrate level? they are steady at about 40 no matter how many water changes i do |
If this is the case then you need to check your makeup saltwater. Check your makeup water for nitrates after you mix it up. If it tests 0, then you CAN lower your nitrates by doing water changes. If you makeup water is high in nitrates then you need to find another water supply and/or salt.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 10 2008 at 8:25am |
I agree with Jake. Something isn't right if it stays at 40ppm no matter what you do. Check what he said and let us know. 
05gtiguy wrote:
...the levels of Alk and Ca...were always stable and with my water changes never worried about it, and I dont have anything that needs calcium. |
Alk and Ca are used up by the growth of many diverse organisms. Here is a partial list in order of magnitude for a typical hobbyist tank: Coralline Algae (lack of growth is directly related to low Alk, Ca and Mg) Snails (for their shells...duh...I was waaay into this hobby before that one hit me one day ) Crabs and 'pods of all types (for their exoskeletons. they cannot molt if Alk and Ca are not right) Feather Duster Worms (large ones but especially the small and tiny ones that build a hard tube Soft coral (for example Leather coral build millions of tiny slivers of Calcium Carbonate to give stability to their form, even Xenia need the Alk and Ca to be right) Seastars, Urchins and their relatives Vermitid Snails (I like calling them "mucous net worms") Fish (for their skeleton and teeth of course) Next to salinity and temperature the Alk and Ca levels are the next most important parameters of a Marine Aquarium. If Alk and Ca are out of whack, the entire tank suffers which can also lead to a problem with N compounds. Check this and let us know. So now the next question is, Water changes? How often, how much and what brand of salt?
Edited by Mark Peterson - December 10 2008 at 8:42am
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: December 10 2008 at 9:35am |
Well said Mark. I also notice that keeping my alkalinity up keep my fish healthier. I am not sure if the alkalinity directly helps them or if it just help maintain a more stable environment, but I notice a difference.
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Posted: December 10 2008 at 11:57am |
Okay i stand corrected, So I have lots of things in my tank that use up the avail CA, I will Test them tomorrow and let you know, I have Work and a final tonight so i got a full day wont be home til late. My Coral Banded Shrip has molted 3 times in 6 months not sure if this is alot or a little but i figured that was a good sign . . .
As far was water changes i do 10% on a weekly basis or at least try to keep it weekly, I have tried differant salts as well as the LFS, currently I am using Instant Ocean. Any suggestions on better salt to use?
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tazman1982
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Posted: December 10 2008 at 12:00pm |
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I like Instant Ocean reef crystals. They seem to disolve faster and it adds more CA then the other salts. IMO good stuff.
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75 Reef
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 10:45am |
Parameters:
12/12
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites:0
Nitrates: 20 - lowest i have ever been
Phosphate: .25
Calcium: 490
Alkalinity: 12
Results this morning
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites:0
Nitrates: 20
Phosphate: 0.00
Calcium: 400
Alkalinity: 10
I did do a 30 Percent water change on 12/10 as my one of my anonomes was not looking to good
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 12:21pm |
Basically here is what should happen with a water change.
If your nitrates are at 100 and you do a:
100% water change your nitrates should be 0
75% water change your nitrates should be 25
50% water change your nitrates should be 50
25% water change your nitrates should be 75
10% water change your nitrates should be 90
In your case if your nitrates are 20 and you do a 30% water change it should lower them down to 14.
Here is the formula (I just made this up ) CNL = Current Nitrate Level
WCP = Water Change Percentage
NNL = New Nitrate Level
((CNL*WCP)-CNL)*-1=NNL
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 1:49pm |
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I have also tested my water source as well as after i made up my salt water everything texted zero, so i am not sure why my natrates had not been declining in the past. I will be doing another large waterchange today and see if that helps. Quess i wont need a skimmer ater all.
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