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Mark Peterson 
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 Topic: Cycle - Shmycle... Is the tank ready?
Posted: March 29 2004 at 11:25am |
"Cycling" is a term commonly used by aquarium hobbyists to describe the startup of a new tank. The process is actually one of growth and should more properly be called "Maturing". It's all about ensuring that sufficiently mature biological filtration exists in the new or existing aquarium, so that it doesn't all die or "crash"
Beginners don't have to understand the process. They just need to know that the more appropriately they can transfer real living organisms to their new tank, the more successful it will be. This life does best when properly transferred from other mature aqauriums. The transfer process, properly carried out, is crucial to the succesful immediate readiness for the livestock that the hobbyist really wants. Yes, I said immediate. 
Three things can be transferred.
1) Live Water
2) Live Sand
3) Live Rock
In an effort to keep this post to a reasonable length, I will stop here and allow the message board to discuss the pros and cons and procedural nuances regarding these three items.
But,  I just can't resist starting off the discussion by saying this:
The rock that the hobbyist usually purchases as Live Rock is, in actuality, presently stressed and dieing. 
Edited by Mark Peterson
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 11:43am |
Holy crap. It is like my years of talking with Mark sunk in. Is this really Mark? This sounds exactly like something I would have written.
Adam
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Shane H
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 11:53am |
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Mark - Nicely stated.
My recent experience:
Set up a 20 gallon aquarium in my daughter's 2nd grade classroom. Used approx. 15 lbs of live rock from an established tank, approx 1/2 live sand from an established tank and 1/2 new sand. 100% water from an established tank. New Bio-Wheel style hang-on filter. I added livestock almost immediately (within 3 days)
Livestock included: 1 Clarkii clown, 1 condy anemone, 1 Domino Damsel, 1 Blue Devil Damsel, 3 Green Chromis, 3 Turbo snails, 3 Blue Leg Hermits, 1 BCS, 1 Chocolate Chip Starfish, 3 Bumble Bee Snails.
After three weeks - lost Green Chromis, Domino. Nitrate was high.
Replaced 10 gallons of water with new. Havn't lost anything since. (added a decorator crab)
I do a 5 gallon water change each month. Measured the water parameters after 3 months --> Everything is perfect!
Maturation cycle did occur, but it was very minor and very abbreviated!
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Chem Guy
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 11:53am |
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Mark,
Are you one of those guys that enjoys running into a crowded firehouse and yelling, "Theater!"
Obviously, we all strive for a more mature and stable system in the hopes that it will be "better". But can we all go to the Bahamas (or Indonesia) and collect our own stuff. The more biological trophic levels we include in the tank, *probably* the more stable the system. I say probably, since some trophic levels/predators you may want to intentionally omit (parisites of corals and fish come to mind). Still one will eventual run up against the wall of $$$$, space, time, electric bills and irrate spouses with happy lawyers. Then we have to say enough is enough and the dreams of that PERFECT 10,000 gallon tank will be put on a shelf.
I don't know that there will ever be a perfect way to get *everything*, but by varying the sources and types of substrate (sand/rock/water) one can get an approximation, hopefully.
As far as to when to add various organisms, it is probably better to error on the side of late vs. too soon. An example that comes to mind would be the addition of a mandrin dragonet to a tank before populations of critters have established themselves adequately for it to survive. You may ultimately get those populations of the critters, but at the initial cost of a starved fish. With the introductions of algae filters/refugiums, skimmers, carbon, organisms, etc. one can probably have a more stable system in the advent of any one aspect failing. But in the intial start up, the aquarium most likely doesn't have much buffer either way, since as you pointed out a lot of the organisms and life don't fair well with jet lag.
Just my $0.02 worth....
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Jim LaMunyon
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Carl
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 3:23pm |
Jim, I think that what Mark is trying to say (actually I know but won't speak for him) is that the old opinion of starting up a new tank is relatively outdated. One does not need to wait a year and a half (slight exaggeration) to begin stocking a tank. You also do not need to sacrifice a damsel or chromis or lesser expensive fish to the startup gods to help cycle a brand new system.
If you combine the big 3 (LW, LS, LR) into a new tank, you have a pretty mature tank in no time. Also, you can save on costs by using non-live sand instead of "LS" from carribsea or wherever (which I think is a bunch of hooey anyway). I would love to see the actual bacterial count in one of those bags VS a free scoop from someone's tank locally.
But I digress... He's not really saying that if you use the Big 3 that you can then stuff a 3' leopard shark into a 20-gallon tank. He is just saying that a 20 year old doesn't need to wait until they are on Social Security before they stock a tank.
PS. Had someone else already coined the LW term, or am I just a trend setter? 
Edited by Carl
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Adam Haycock
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 6:27pm |
My sacrificial chromis
The reef Gods are happy 
But I also used LS, LR, and LW
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 6:33pm |
I guess I should clarify and say that I still like the idea of waiting months before adding stuff. What I was surprised to see was Marks' comments on adding live water, sand, rock, and the "maturing" term.
Adam
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Carl
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 8:30pm |
 Adam Blundell wrote:
I guess I should clarify and say that I still like the idea of waiting months before adding stuff. |
Adam, it's the masochist in you. Let us just say that NORMAL people shouldn't need to wait anymore! 
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In Syracuse
"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf
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jfinch
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 8:44pm |
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I side more with adam on this issue...
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Danny Lueck
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 9:53pm |
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Marcus
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 10:48pm |
Danny, before you post anymore pics, I NEED to come back up and move some of your rocks around again now that its not cloudy.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: March 29 2004 at 11:50pm |
Of course it's safe to take it slow, wait for life to grow and when necessary don't add a particular organism.
Unfortunately many LFS tell beginners, and many many books tell the world to sacrifice a few fish to the Reef Gods (thanks BananaTropics ) and to wait much longer than is really necessary.
Shane and Danny have Wet Thumbs It looks like BananaTropics' thumb is starting to wrinkle too.
I'm a little slow and unsure of what ChemGuy means for us to understand (Jim, please help me out), but since he mentioned theater, here are the
CREDITS
Maturing - This is Adams term from a post in the thread linked here: Aquarium startup - a sensible change
LW - I don't know if it was Carl or someone else that first used the term "Live Water", but it just seemed to fit better than saying "old water" as opposed to freshly mixed water.
Then Carl (he always cracks me up) abbreviated it "LW" ... Bingo!
Edited by Mark Peterson
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Danny Lueck
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Posted: March 30 2004 at 12:27am |
I think rocks look fine or I would have changed them myself Marcus 
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Adam Haycock
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Posted: March 30 2004 at 8:46am |
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: March 30 2004 at 9:02am |
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