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Overflow level?

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jpndave View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 24 2007 at 10:42am
Anyone have any suggestions on the water level in the tank?  How far from the top should it be?  I am building a new tank and need to set the overflow height.  Unsure where to set the top of it.
 
Also, teeth or no teeth?  If using teeth, what spacing.
 
Thanks!
 
Dave
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The height of the teeth, spacing between the teeth, and width of the overflow will have to do with the amount of flow.
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpndave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2007 at 11:38am
Thanks for the reply mike.  How far from the top of the tank do I want the water level?  This is a eurobraced acrylic tank.
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This is part of an article I wrote a few years ago on sumps and overflows with current (comments) thrown in...
 
Overflows
Overflows are very useful when constructed correctly.  The water on the surface of the aquarium tends to have the more nutrients and waste like household dust and oily films from cooking than any other area.  Properly constructed and installed overflows will draw this water off of the surface and send it to the sump area where biological and mechanical filtrations are normally placed.  If the power goes out or the return pump fails, the overflow should only allow the water above a certain level to drain into the sump therefore preventing the sump to overflow.  A properly placed overflow with enough flow will skim all of the dust and oily films that collect on the water surface.  There is a lot of debate on what the proper flow through an overflow should be.  The flow range seems to be from the tank volume times 1 to tank volume times 10 or more.  Flow volume, on tanks with built in overflows, is usually limited to the bulk head diameter the manufacture used.
 
(I would build the overflow box without teeth)
 
No Overflow is Fail Safe
Any overflow has the possibility of failing.  A common cause of the failure is a snail checking out the standpipe, getting stuck and blocking the flow.  Anything blocking the standpipe prevents flow from the display tank to the sump.  The return pump however, will keep pumping water from the sump to the display tank until it is empty.  This can cause flooding and in my case an irate wife.  This is why we are now going to cover how to prevent this by sizing the sump to match the overflow.

Calculating Sump Size and Water Level
Calculating the sump size and configuration can be very critical.  I like to have as large of sump as possible.  However, in my opinion, compartmentalizing the sump is the key to success.  You will need to calculate the amount of water that the display tank can hold if the overflow fails.  This is done by measuring the distance from the display tank’s normal water level surface to the rim of the tank.  Let’s call this measured value the height (H).  All measurements will be in inches.  Measure the length (L) and the width (W) of the tank. The calculation to determine the volume in gallons it can hold above the overflow is H x L x W / 231.

Let’s use my tank as an example for this calculation.  I have 1.5 inches from the normal water level in my tank to the top rim of the tank.  My tank is 60” long and 18” wide so the calculation is 1.5”x60”x18” equals approximately 7 gallons (I round down just to be safe).  So when I made my sump, I made the volume of the last compartment from the pump intake to the rim of the compartment a little less than 7 gallons.  Now if my overflow fails, I can not flood the living room.  Using this method has saved me more than once.

The next thing that we need to do is determine the overall size of the sump.  During a power outage water will drain from the display tank to the sump.  This water will come from two sources.  The first source is the overflow.  The water in the tank will drain down to the top of the internal overflow box.  The second source is from the return pump line.  This is the easiest source to miss since many of us will forget that the water will siphon from the tank to the sump from this line though the pump.  One trick I like to do is to drill a 1/4” hole in the return line just below the water surface.  This hole will allow siphon to break when the water level drop below the hole.  The calculation to determine the extra volume needed during a power outage is similar to the one we used before.  Measure the distance in inches from the normal water level to the level the water will drop to when the return pump turns off.  Let’s call this measurement height (H). We will use the length and width measurement we used before.

The calculation to determine the additional sump water volume needed above normal water levels is HxLxW/231.  Using my tank as an example, the water level drops ¾” when the return pump turns off.  So the minimum additional volume needed in the sump is ¾”x60”x18”=3.51 gallons.  To be on the safe side always round up when doing this calculation.  My current sump is a 23 gallon acrylic tank that measures 12”x28”x16”.  The last compartment holds 6.5 gallons and the maximum water level in the sump is 7”.  This leaves me with 9 gallons (5”x28”x16”/231 ) of volume remaining for any extra overflow.

Thanks,
 
Scott
President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society
A fair and biased reef hobbyist
"How do you make poor people rich by making rich people poor" Rush Limbaugh on Obama taxes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpndave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2007 at 12:21pm
Wow, thanks Scott.  Where is the original article located?  That helps a lot!
 
What do you do if you have an auto top off?  I have the sump sorted to handle a pump failure.  I don't see how to make the tank take the extra water that the pump would deliver if the drain line plugged.  I could hold the level down enough to handle the water in the return area but the ato would kick in and that would be the end of it.  I'd have to leave the tank half full to work that way.  I had planned on a back up drain.  Two 1" drains with one set up higher to only operate if the first became plugged or restricted.  Will that be suffecient.
 
Thanks again for the reply, really helps!
 
Dave
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Great article Scott!
 
I like to keep the water level high enough so that the trim on the tank or the bottom edge of the canopy hides the edge of the water.
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GARFVolunteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2007 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by jpndave jpndave wrote:

Wow, thanks Scott.  Where is the original article located?  That helps a lot!
 
What do you do if you have an auto top off?  I have the sump sorted to handle a pump failure.  I don't see how to make the tank take the extra water that the pump would deliver if the drain line plugged.  I could hold the level down enough to handle the water in the return area but the ato would kick in and that would be the end of it.  I'd have to leave the tank half full to work that way.  I had planned on a back up drain.  Two 1" drains with one set up higher to only operate if the first became plugged or restricted.  Will that be suffecient.
 
Thanks again for the reply, really helps!
 
Dave
 
Thanks Dave.  The entire article can be found here on page 6: http://www.idahoreefs.org/News/Imas_march_2006.pdf
 
If you  create chambers in your sump, you can reduce the amount of water your tank needs to handle in the event of a drain failure.  On my current tank/sump(not the one I had when I wrote the article), the final chamber where the sump pump is, is 12"x12"x6" (3.75 gal).  I can get away with it being this small because I have an auto top off. 
 
One of the problems with auto top offs is if you have a drain failure, you can fill your tank with fresh water until the pump burns up.  A few months ago I was called in on a tank that had this problem while the owners were on vacation.  The only thing that lived was the eel...
 
If you go with the two drain idea, make sure the second drain can handle 100% of the flow...
 
If it was me I would do one of two things.  I would build in an electrical safe guard to shut off the ATO or build a poor man's ATO like I did.  If the drain failed on my tank, the most fresh water that could be added is 7 gallons.  It uses a Kent float valve, 1/4" tubing, a 2 gallon water container from Walmart, a 5 gallon Culligan water bottle and some clamps.
 
 
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
Scott
President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society
A fair and biased reef hobbyist
"How do you make poor people rich by making rich people poor" Rush Limbaugh on Obama taxes
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