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To Vacuum or not?

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rfoote View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 14 2004 at 8:44pm
Just wondering thoughts on whether others think you should vacuum your dsb or not?  As well as if you do or not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewaldsreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2004 at 9:29pm
I use sand sifting critters for my 125 and vacuum my 10 gallon. I think you cant go wrong with vacuuming your sand bed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 7:27am

I (of course ) disagree with vacuuming the substrate. I like all of the good bugs living down there. I also believe that if there is a need to clean it due to detritus, cyano or whatever then there is a need to add something to the cleanup crew. One exception may be if there is an excess of rubble, shells or something not "natural" on the substrate that you want gone. But generally a vacuum won't remove this.

My opinion is that it can do more harm than good.

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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 8:19am

I don't have mechanical filtration on my tanks, but if I did that would make a difference.  For instance if you have a sump area and a huge filter pad and tons of water flow, then I wouldn't vacuum the tank.  I would just stir it up every once in a while (I mean the water right on the top of the sand and rocks) and let all the crap get filtered out. 
If you have a 20 gal tank, then I say vacuum out 1 gal of water and dump in a new gal every couple months.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Weimers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 9:58am
Rfoote,  I have wondered this as well.  There was some good discussion about it at the last WMAS meeting, and the concensus seemed to be that it would be bad to vacuum because you would lose the good critters in the DSB.  I keep wanting to vacuum, because we used to do that with our freshwater tank very regularly.  But now we have this 250g 36-inch tall tank, which rests on a 36-inch tall stand.  So getting UP to the top of the tank requires a sturdy ladder, and then getting DOWN to the substrate requires a long pair of tongs and/or a vacuum sucky tube.  So we kind of compromise, and use the turkey baster to gently blow stuff off of the rocks.  Our turbo snails seem to do a good job, and our hermit crabs keep things moving around a little.  We also have a goby that likes to build pyramids of substrate, so he's keeping things moving.  So that's a newbie opinion with a tank that's only been up since Dec 15th 2003.  Oh, I forgot to mention that we have a 55g sump, 1200gph pump, and excellent protein skimmer.  I'm glad you asked this question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 11:08am
I've just heard some differing opionins lately.  It seems anybody I've seen that has a beatiful white clean dsb vacuums it and those that look like crap like mine don't.  I've started cleaning the dsb by the front of my tank just because I don't like the look and wondering if it is going to cause any great harm?  I know for a fact that most of our LFS do vacuum the front of their tanks as well, I think its a presentation deal though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Weimers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 11:33am

...and here I thought that they were supposed to look like crap.  Well, not the actual fish waste, but the different colorations that you get from the critters that live in your sand.  I've recently seen a couple of critters that I think are bristle worms in our substrate, and unfortunately a few flat worms.  So I know that our substrate is becoming more "lively," and from what I've heard that's good.  So if yours looks like crap, maybe that's a good thing. (??)

Renee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 1:00pm

Originally posted by Weimers Weimers wrote:

So if yours looks like crap, maybe that's a good thing. (??)

Completely agree.

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstruhs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 2:29pm
Adam, you mean with all the bright red, green, and black stuff in my sand it is good if it isn't white?  I don't need to get rid of the rainbow colors?  That is so cool!  My sand is good!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Weimers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2004 at 2:40pm
You have nice aged happy sand!?!  I want/need some!!  Our sand is barely starting to get a little greenish brown, and Mark Peterson said it is "too clean, but normal for an 8 week old tank."  I'm so jealous that you have rainbow sand.  Everybody says that's the mark of a great tank. (Okay, the "everybody" that I've met is Joe & Cindy, Marcus, and Mark.)  But I'm so jealous!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2004 at 7:46am

Struhs,

My current tank is only about 8 months old, but it is definately a rainbow of colors in the sand.  You should also be able to look close and see little detritus particles and also tiny shrimp running around in the sand.

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2004 at 8:44pm

I am too lazy to read the above posts, so I will just give my thoughts.  Of course, I dissagree with most people on this topic.  Why is that different than any other topic?

I am 100% sold on gravel vaccing tanks.  I have seen tanks that have been set up for long periods of time and I will tell you that the detritus does NOT get eaten by "bugs".  Maybe some of it does, but tanks that do get vacced are by far cleaner than those that do not.  Obviously if a tank is not very populated with fish, then it would not have to be vacced as much a largely popluated tank.  Again, I don't care what all of you do to your tanks, but mine is getting gravel vacced.

There is a proper way to gravel vac a tank.  By that I mean only going down 1/3-1/2 of the substrate and only doing one side per cleaning.  That way your bacteria doesn't loose too much at once.  I am also a firm believer in refugias which is why I feel vaccing doesn't hurt my tanks as much as it might if I didn't have a refugia on it.

One more piece of info on this topic, wait until one of you has to move a tank that has never been gravel vacced.  You can watch all your fish die as the ammonia gets released into the water.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2004 at 8:47pm
To clean a different small portion of the substrate from time to time can be useful but to what depth does one go? I'm not sure it really matters because life will repopulate it.

The seafloor gets cleaned by the life living in it and by storms. There is a lot of life in the substrate that inverts/coral of all types enjoy eating. Stir up a portion from time to time or insert a hose into various points in the substrate and squirt till the tankwater is cloudy, as in a storm. Your inverts will love you for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shane H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2004 at 9:02pm
[QUOTE=Weimers]use the turkey baster to gently blow stuff off of the rocks.QUOTE]

Once in a great while I will do the same thing - except I forego the gentle part. I just take a powerhead and use it like a leaf blower. It blows all kinds of stuff off the rocks, sand, etc.

A lot of it ends up in the refugium. The rest re-settles and I do it again the following year. I do not vaccum the substrate. Instead - create the occasional storm with a powerhead. You'll be amazed at how many mushrooms you find floating around afterwards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2004 at 7:41am

I like the idea of Shane's synthetic storm.  I have noticed that our cucumbers are never fully extended except when I am stiring up the substrate.

I have always heard and read that the bio load in our tanks is way off from the natural reef.  We have too many fish and other organisms to our ratio of water and seafloor.  Doesn't it make sense that we should compensate for this by vacuuming.  I think that if we had miles of sea floor with a nice current sweeping toward the near by drop off then we wouldn't need to vacuum.  But we have a load of fish and coral in a box.

If you are worried about loosing organisms, just vacuum into your refugium. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2004 at 8:29am
I agree with what Marcus said, but I only gravel vac the top 2".
Jake Pehrson

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2004 at 11:26pm

Jake, I thought it was against club policy to agree with me.

Thanks buddy!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2004 at 8:07am

Ohh...  That's right.

Everything Marcus says is wrong.

 

Jake Pehrson

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