Refugium/Sump Setup

Hi All!  I  hope to go to the 2/5 WMAS meeting on tank setups and hopefully refugium/sump setup will be included, but for now I have a few questions.  I currently have a 55g fish only tank that I will be turning into a reef tank.  During this process I plan on adding a refugium/sump to my tank underneath in the cabinet.  I was thinking a 20L would be a great size for the tank.   I would like to incorporate all of my equipment that is currently hanging in the display tank, heater, HOB skimmer, and power filter (to run carbon) into this setup.  I would also like to incorporate a refugium to grow some macro for nutrient export.  I would like your opinions on the idea i have for the setup.   I was thinking of spliting the tank into 5/10/5 sections (or a 12/8g sections).  I would use an SOS hangon overflow rated up to 600GPH (my tank is not drilled). The first 5g section would house the skimmer, heater, and power filter.  The 10 would house the refugium and then the last 5 would hold a Mag7 (should I go bigger?) rated for 450 gph @ 12ft head and a 4ft rise.  I would split the return from the pump with either a T fitting or an SCWD.  Any ideas on this would be great.

Second set of questions I have is:

1)  Will my refug/sump have enough volume to hold the excess water from the SOS overflow in case of a power outage before it breaks the siphon? 

2)  Has anyone had problems with their external overflow boxes not starting the siphon up again after a power outage?  (Pump runs dry and frys)  Should I use a float switch to prevent the pump from turning on in this case (obviously) or should I not worry about it.

3)  Has anyone had a back siphon from the main tank back through the return line and through the pump overflowing the sump in a power outage?  Is there a one way check valve I can use IF this is a problem?

Any suggestions would be great!!  And I hope this was not to long of a post.

 

Seems like sumps have been a pretty active topic here lately. Kirk, you could do a search by keywork on sumps here and come up with a plethera of information regarding all of the concerns that you have, but I will offer my opinion.

Yes, you may experience every one of the issues that you addressed above or you may experience none. It really depends on how you plumb things. I do not have experience with the external overflows, so I will defer on that, but I have heard that they do lose prime. However, I do believe that someone has a fix that worked for them that I am sure they will share.

As for sump capacity to handle the volume in case of a power outage... it really depends on siphon breaks. Can you use a check valve? Sure, but it usually constricts the return line. You also need to gauge free volume are of the sump. The skimmer, pump, filtration, sand, rock, etc all take away from your true containment capacity.

Also, consider placement of the returns especially if you are using one of those octopus wavemaker thingies. As an example, a friend installed one of them for his 120-gal. Problem is that it had a rigid mount that set it about 4" below the surface. It also did not have a check valve installed. So when his power went out, so did the water... all over his floor.

You may want to consider freeing up volume by hanging some of the components on the back of the sump. That is an easy way to free up room. Just my thoughts.

Let me start out by saying that I would never (again) use and external overflow box.  IMO there is no completely safe external overflow box.  I know many people have used them for years and are going to argue with, but there is always a chance that something will go wrong. 

I think the best options are to drill your tank or buy a new one.

That said here are some thoughts.

Kirklan wrote: 2)  Has anyone had problems with their external overflow boxes not starting the siphon up again after a power outage?  (Pump runs dry and frys)  Should I use a float switch to prevent the pump from turning on in this case (obviously) or should I not worry about it.

A float valve would help me sleep better at night.

Also worse then frying a pump is overflowing your main tank because the siphon broke.

Kirklan wrote: 3)  Has anyone had a back siphon from the main tank back through the return line and through the pump overflowing the sump in a power outage?  Is there a one way check valve I can use IF this is a problem?

Yes, I would worry about back siphon from the main tank.  There are check valves, but they reduce flow and they are not 100% effective (a single grain of sand can keep the valve open a little), but what choice do you have?

I would use a check valve (maybe 2)and keep a return line close to the water surface in the main tank to make sure the siphon breaks when the power goes out.

Edited by Jake Pehrson

Everyone else has covered all your questions it seems. I would just add that rather than running a seperate power filter for the carbon, I would incorporate a slot between the first and second chamber and block it with a carbon filled bag. This ensures a 100% water passage instead of drawing off a reduced amount of the volume of water passing through the sump.

That has been my concern with Skyetone's set-up as well.

We seem to tackle this problem a couple times monthly, with one newbie after another. We need to get some kind of explanatory document to which we can refer guests.

Some time ago I wrote a document that explains over the top overflows, and water returns. It also cautions about how to avoid floods during power outages, but it is still lacking at explaining "in tank skimmer boxes". If we could add that and include drilled set-ups that would be great.

Anyone want to read, edit and add to it?

I guess there are a few questions remaining. A useful bit of advice that I found here and like is to put a piece of plastic mesh or bridal veil over the top of the overflow box. This keeps roving turbo snails from clogging your U-tubes, overflowing your tank, and running your pump dry. of course multiple overflows helps with this but even reducing your overflow if you've got a pretty good return flow can be disastrous.

chrisslc wrote: I guess there are a few questions remaining. A useful bit of advice that I found here and like is to put a piece of plastic mesh or bridal veil over the top of the overflow box. This keeps roving turbo snails from clogging your U-tubes, overflowing your tank, and running your pump dry. of course multiple overflows helps with this but even reducing your overflow if you've got a pretty good return flow can be disastrous.

 

Ahh yes, that would be where the safety float switch would come in handy.  Once you tank drops to much it would of course turn your pump off.

Edited by Kirklan

Thanks a lot Carl! 

When you say "Turbo Calcium", is this a calcium reactor, additive, or a DIY?  If I upgrade my tank I would like to make it as automated as possible but keep the costs as low as possible also.  I am interested in any DIY ideas for a Calc reactor, sump and anything else.

Turbo Calcium is an additive from Kent.  Other manufacturers make a similar product but Kent's is pretty well known.