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 Topic: FLATWORMS GONE AFTER TREATMENT
Posted: May 23 2003 at 8:52pm |
I recently got sick and tired of all the flat worms I had ( tried many natural remedies but none worked) in my tank so I decided to go chemical. I used this product called greenex. It is sold as an ich treatment but will kill any other protozoans in the water. To be on the safe side I decided to treat my cuttings tank that had a few fish, snails and crabs and lots of pods. It doesnt have any coral in there yet.
I siphoned off as many live flatworms as I could first because they release toxins when killed and its these toxins that kill other life in the tank (not greenex itself as it is reef safe). I followed the manufactures recommended dosage and let it sit for about one an hour and a half. Within 10 minutes I saw the flatworms start to move around like they do when touched. Within half an hour I saw most of them dead and quite a few floating around in the water column. I once again siphoned off almost all the water and did a massive water change. The total water volume is about 45gallons with the sump included and I probably ended up changing all of it. Here are my observations:
1) It killed all the flatworms of the reddish variety ( I have heard it doesnt work on transparent type)
2)It did not harm anything else in the tank like hermit crabs, snails or fish which in this case are an unknown type of goby and a blue damsal
3) Most of the pod population is still intact ( All losses were when I ended up siphoning out a lot of those little bugs with the water change
My conclusion is that it worked fine for me . Others have tried it in a reef tank with corals and delicate fish without problems. Some people have reported losses but I strongly believe that it is the toxins removed from the dying flatworms that resulted in losses and not the chemical. Also greenex may stain the silicone a dark green color.
BTW I got this idea after reading a bunch of posts on reefcentral.
I will try my nano next.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: May 24 2003 at 8:10am |
What about the Florida sand we last spoke of? Was it working?
I will want to come take a look in a week or so to ensure that it totally eradicated them. Then my brother and I will probably do the greenex thing. I will also ask the Jone's about this. They may have already had experience with it.
Thanks for being bold enough to try it. If it works, your tanks should start to look even better!
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MarineAquatics
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Posted: May 24 2003 at 9:57am |
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We tryed it works great!!!!!! just make sure you dont over dose the tank with it and make sure you do a good water change after and carbon will stop the reaction. Also i advise you have a skimmer when doing this due to all the flat worms dying it can spike you ammonia. We carry greenex aswell as many other pets stores do aswell...
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Posted: May 24 2003 at 10:06am |
Mark, seems like the florida sand was working but i guess I got real impatient and tried the chemical option. I guess well never know if the sand or some organism in it was the cause. I looked again this morning and cannot find a single faltworm.
BTW i forgot to mention in the initial post that along with a big water change i also started running carbon to take out any left over toxins.
Asad
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MarineAquatics
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Posted: May 24 2003 at 10:09am |
Yeah thats what we did did you use i drop per gal?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: May 24 2003 at 7:48pm |
Asad,
I would still like to try the sand. It seemed like something was working when I was there. If the greenex didn't kill whatever it was. I will call to see if I might come over to get some.
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Posted: May 24 2003 at 9:13pm |
Sure Mark, Sunday will be a good day.
Asad
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: May 27 2003 at 9:31am |
FYI-
Greenex by Aquatronics is a combination of Malachite Green and Quinine Hydrochloride. Although Malachite Green can and has been used safely on fish, corals, and inverts, most "experts" don't consider it completely reef safe. Fish, Inverts, and corals (especially softs) have been known to die after just one treatment.
If you do decide to treat your tank with Greenex of Malachite Green I would recommend adding carbon and turning up you skimmer a couple of hours after the treatment to avoid prolonged exposure to you animals.
My $.02
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jfinch
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Posted: May 27 2003 at 11:43am |
One other thought. Malachite Green will stain any and all silicone an ugly green. All glass tanks have silicone in the corners, so if you don't want permanent green in the corners you might try FlatwormExit.
I think Jake's right, afterall it's killing the flatworms... it'll kill other inverts too. Watch the dose amount and duration if using these chemicals.
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MarineAquatics
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Posted: May 28 2003 at 3:17pm |
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He had good luck with Greenex we didnt loose any inverts with our treatment we did one drop per gal and a carbon bag after 20 min with the skimmer running aswell you can over dose very easy....
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 18 2003 at 11:00am |
Flatworms have been an increasing problem in my tank for about two months now. Recently, I had the idea that since these flatworms are photosynthetic, I would reduce the lighting on my tank and see what effect that had. I also turned off all circulation for a few hours the first day(and will probably do this again).
The lights were left off for five days from Thursday to Monday. I was gone over the weekend and was too preoccupied to feed the tank, so for those five days the tank had to fend for itself. I kind of had this in mind since the 2 Yellow Tailed Blue Damsels and the Green Mandarin will eat flatworms.
Diffused sunlight coming in from the window is all the light it had. On the morning of the second day before I left for the weekend, I noticed something really different. The belly of the Green Manderin was really fat! Also in the darker conditions the flatworms came out onto the glass, apparently to catch what little light there was.
By the end of the five days(yesterday), I turned on the lights for 3 or 4 hours to keep the coral and clam going. It appears that the Caulerpa doesn't need so much light because it has almost doubled in coverage!
Now it's the 7th day since beginning this "experiment". I cannot see the mat of flatworms that was beginning to cover the rocks and sand. Unless they are hiding somewhere, the flatworm population in the tank seems less than a fourth the size of last week!
That's very significant, and, to add to my surprize, the coral are just fine, as though nothing ever happened. Perhaps they are good also because the toxicity levels in the tank are falling with the decrease in flatworms.
I will keep you'all posted as this attempt continues, to rid my tank of flatworms.
Oh BTW, I tried Salifert Flatworm exit about three weeks ago. It only killed about 10% before I could see that either it or the flatworm toxic discharge was killing my fish. A 50% water change and a day of carbon removed the chemicals but it may take months for my green stars and blastimosa to return to normal. The clam looked like a gonner but seems okay now. I lost a Green Chromis. The Bi-color Blenny got a cloudy eye and white discoloration on it's face. It took two weeks for the cloudy eye and discoloration to go away. It seems okay now though I wonder if it's vision is bad in the that right eye. The 3 Mollies and the 2 yellow Tailed Blue Damsels survived though they still look a little worn. The Green Mandarin remained healthy through it all!
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jfinch
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Posted: June 18 2003 at 11:22am |
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Wow, that's good (or bad as the case may be) info on the Flatworm exit. I had read some good things about it on reefcentral, appears that may not be the case.
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mdawson8931
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Posted: June 18 2003 at 11:48am |
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Could the damage be because of the small water volume and the lack of 'buffer'? I'm just curious.
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Mike
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Rodney Peterson
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Posted: June 18 2003 at 12:01pm |
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I have also had a great deal of trouble with these flatworms. They don't seem to be doing any damage except to my mushrooms. I am going to try Mark's idea, since I have noticed they are most abundant in the late afternoon and I have only been feeding my fish twice a week anyway. I have already tried the great flatworm eating slug (Cheldonura Varians), a Scooter Blenny, an Arrow Crab, a Yellow Watchman Goby and other things I won't mention since it will show my inexperience. My ego could not handle the ridicule. Anyway we will see how it goes.
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Rodney Peterson
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Marcus
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Posted: June 18 2003 at 2:50pm |
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try increaing your water flow where the flatworms are. They need low water flow to reproduce and hey have a short life span. So they just off without reproducing.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 19 2003 at 2:09am |
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Marcus, if you could see how tightly woven the flatworm blanket is, you might be shocked. A water stream would probably just move the mass around, not eliminate it, but that's an excellent suggestion for a few flatworms noticed before they get out of control. Asad, Rodney and I are way past that. Does anyone else have a flatworm problem?
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Marcus
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Posted: June 19 2003 at 2:35pm |
Didn't you tell me that some damsel was eating flat worms? Is that still happening?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 19 2003 at 4:47pm |
Marcus,
Yes, part of the reduction in flatworms has got to be the 2 Yellow Tailed Blue Damsels, since they are getting fed nothing else and they are not skinny or acting real hungry! I saw the first one eat a flatworm within a day of introduction and MSM (Mountain Shadow Marine)claims they work. That's why I bought another about a month ago from you guys. Jake netted it for me because you were with other customers. That one almost died in the salifert treatment and still looks a little worn. In all fairness to Salifert, I understand that Asad used a higher concentration of Greenex to do the job on two of his three tanks. (I haven't heard the results on his 120 gal main tank. Asad, are you there?) The Salifert instructions say to add one drop per gallon so taking into account sand and rock, I added 8 drops to my 10 gallon tank and then at 45 minutes, if the worms are not dieing I was suposed to add another 50%. But by that time the fish were so stressed, if I had added more medication, I surely would have lost more fish and perhaps a coral.
If I were to try Salifert again, I would use an intial dosage of 11 or 12 drops, stronger than their initial directions but perhaps that strong dosage removed within an hour by water change and carbon, would not be so hard on the fish and coral. But it appears from what Asad has told me that the Greenex had no effect on his fish, so that's why my next attempt after the light reduction and natural predation will be to use Greenex
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Marcus
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Posted: June 19 2003 at 5:45pm |
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Posted: June 19 2003 at 11:51pm |
Mark,
Sorry about the absence. I rely on the new posts section to see all the new messages but looks like all the new messages in this post somehow got past me!!
Anyways, I still havent tried the flatworm exit on my main tank. Im actually slowly siphoning out as many flatworms as I can so that when i do the greenex treatment I have a minimun effect on the tank. Ive brought down the numbers to low enough that I can see the rock rather than a mat of flatworms. I will do this until I have very few left and then administer the chemical.
As for the cuttings tank and the nano, they look fine and flatworm free after the greenex treatment. The corals (mostly softies) and a goby (species unknown) in the nano remain in good health, so do the hermits and snails.
Mark, I do like your idea on cutting the light supply. Keep us posted on the progress. I also agree with the Greenex overdosage/short exposure formula as it kills the flatworms and not harm anything else in the tank (no discoloration of silicone either).
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