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Sculpin
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Topic: Re-Siliconing Glass-HELP! Posted: January 24 2011 at 4:05pm |
So after a week I'm finally back from Vegas and ready to fix my parents 225 but I have a few questions.
Before I get into that, for anyone who doesn't know, I take care of my parents Lee-Mar 225 reef tank. The day I left for Vegas it sprung a leak along the front top right corner. Apparently these Lee-Mar Ero-braced tanks don't hold up very well after a few years of use. Anyways, Mark was kind enough to drop everything and come by to help my parents out with some damage control. He lowered the water level, put the power heads on, and they all hoped for the best. The next day my dad discovered that the leak had moved down further, he then put pipe clamps on the top right, left, and center of the tank and that seemed to do the trick. He filled it back up with salt water and got it going again. I got home last night and checked the tank out this morning and apparently it is leaking again (but very very slowly).
The plan of action is this- 1) Lower the water level in the display tank a few inches lower then where we can see where the silicone has separated (it's not separated all the way through the joint, just in a few small places) 2) Clean the glass super good where the new bead of silicone will go 3) Apply new silicone and allow 24 hours to dry 4) Refill with salt water and pray it wont leak again 5) Build stainless steal bracing system and once installed remove the pipe clamps
The question I have (for now) is, what is the best way to clean the glass and what chemicals can I safely use around the tank to reseal the silicone?
I plan on taping a trash bag in the corner just above the water level just in case but I'm worried about cleaning chemical fumes or the silicone its self around the fish tank. Let me know what you think about it.
The back up plan will be taking the tank down, find temporary storage for the livestock, and send the tank back to Lee-Mar in California to have them remove the front pain and re-silicone it and send it back. We would have to cover shipping but they said they would reseal it free of charge.
Anyways, let me know what you guys think and thanks in advance.
Micah
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bfessler
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 4:37pm |
On a tank of that size I wouldn't trust a reseal without taking down the tank and a complete reseal of the joint. 225 gallons is a lot of water to wind up on the floor if it fails.
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Burt
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Luckedout
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 4:40pm |
bfessler wrote:
On a tank of that size I wouldn't trust a reseal without taking down the tank and a complete reseal of the joint. 225 gallons is a lot of water to wind up on the floor if it fails. |
I agree. If a big portion of the seam is already breaking then what's to say it won't continue to do so even with the fix? Also, what about the other joints in the tank? Better to get some big tupperware bins, clean out the tank and reseal it the right way. Not fun, but better than completely losing your tank
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-Ben
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tcfab
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 4:57pm |
I would do what others said above. It really is not hard removing the glass and redoing the silicone, I have done it a few times (looks just like Leemar's when done). Let me know if you need some help.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 6:08pm |
That's a job I would not start without contacting the largest local distributor and the manufacturer. Their tips could be invaluable. I can quickly get you the names and phone numbers for both. Personally I think you are asking for trouble to do what you are proposing.
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Sculpin
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 7:29pm |
I agree with you guys to do it right and do it right the first time however at this point we are just seeing if this could work. We have contacted Lee-Mar and they'll fix it for free but we are trying to avoid tearing down the whole tank.
That said we have had a change of plans to how we are going to secure the tanks leak. The tank itself is almost a net fit in between two large posts and the rear of the tank is right up against a wall. After removing about 1/4 of the tanks water, we took a couple of pieces of 2x6 and bolted on to the post, sandwiching the tank between the post and the rear wall. I could actually see the separated silicone get squished back together by doing this. I've siliconed it up and in about 24 hours (when the silicone dries) we will replace the 2x6 with a 1/4" aluminum angle-iron (it would do the same thing as the 2x6) and see if it leaks. If it does, we will tear it down and ship it off.
Honestly, I agree with you guys but we are just trying this as an option even though it really is totally jerry rigged. As for resiliconing it, I cleaned it all up with a razor and used rubbing alcohol to degrees it before applying the silicone. I hope I did that right.
You can see whats going on here in this photo, how the silicone is failing and how the 2x6 on the bottom is splaying between the wall and the tank. We currently have another 2x6 in the spot shown and are hopping that the new aluminum piece (setting it up tomorrow) will permanently add structure to the failing silicone in the corner. This we know, the two 2x6's do stop the leak completely.
And here is another shot of corner will all the stuff on-
Anyways, I know I'm going to continue to get a bunch of criticism for doing it this way but I honestly think it might work.
Micah
Edited by Sculpin - January 24 2011 at 7:32pm
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Luckedout
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 7:58pm |
I think you're just delaying the inevitable and inviting potential disaster in the meantime.
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-Ben
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tcfab
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 9:33pm |
I hate to tell you but that whole seam is popping very badly there is no way I would even have water in that. putting silicone on just the inside edge is not going to hold that together. The silicone you see on the inside of an aquarium is just the sealing bead (not structural) This bead actually just seals the structural silicone thats inbetween the glass. Its the silicone thats inbetween the two panels that gives the aquarium its strength.
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tcfab
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 10:35pm |
If you need help re-doing it let me know, I have built/repaired quite a few tanks.
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bfessler
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 11:55pm |
I agree with Tyler. One other thing you need to consider is that the manufacturer will stand behind the tank now but if you continue trying to repair the tank on your own and it breaks you will be on the hook for the repair. Sometimes it's just better to bite the bullet and take down the tank, do it right and start again.
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Burt
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tcfab
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Posted: January 25 2011 at 8:04am |
I am just trying to help him save shipping costs on shipping a large tank to California and back. Building tanks is not as hard as most think. When I built my first tank I did a ton of research and talked to a well known tank builder on Reef Central and asked him tons of questions and learned a lot from him. If you want his contact info let me know. As long as the glass is prepped right, spaced right and the right silicone is used you will not have any problems. I am actually surprised Leemar offered to fix it for free, that is pretty good of them. Most tank Mfg.'s only put a one year warranty on their tanks and all that covers is if the tank breaks they will fix it, nothing more. I am betting when you have 225 gallons on the floor the tank is going to be the last of your worries.
There are a few tank builders locally as well if you want their contact info. I know Eric Davis (used to own Marine Aquatics) has built lots of tanks as well. There is someone else to but I can't remember their name at the moment, I can find out though.
Edited by tcfab - January 25 2011 at 8:05am
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 25 2011 at 9:19am |
I'm not criticizing you for trying to save some money. I'm the King Of Cheap. Your father and you are very able to do that single repair. I have no doubt.
But where I am coming from is this. In case you don't know, I have a Masters Degree from the U of U and have worked mostly in my chosen field since 1983. But I would rather be growing coral and helping people with their reef aquariums. Remember, I maintained that tank for the previous owner when I worked at MSM for a few years. I know that tank and I know LeeMar tanks. I came up that night and saw it leaking. I even pointed out to my wife that I saw the seam separating for a good half of it's length. Your father on the other hand was more concerned in the quick repair. I don't remember whether I spent any time showing him the seam damage, but I was trying to put him at ease at the time. When we dropped the level a few inches and the river of water stopped, I was actually surprised and concerned about what that meant. In the end, my concern was well founded.
Micah, you can take my advice or not, but remember this. I've been at this a long time. I believe it would be unwise not to take Leemar's offer and let them make that tank like new. The other corner seams are in need of repair as well. LeeMar may find that the entire tank needs to be taken apart and rebuilt.
Randy can help. He picks up LeeMar tanks every month or two. You could ask him how he might help and save some shipping costs. Depending on the timing, the best logistics could allow it to be taken to Vegas for drop ship to LeeMar. LeeMar drop ships to Vegas at least as often as MSM picks up.
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 26 2011 at 6:34am
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Sculpin
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Posted: January 25 2011 at 10:21am |
I actually have been telling my parents all your feedback about the tank and have also been sharing my concerns. I really do feel that, when it comes to that kind of water and investment, it would be better to just send it in for repairs and do it right and I've been sharing that with my parents since I first saw it yesterday morning. That said, this is how my parents want to do it and it's their tank and their investment.
I will do whatever I can to convince them to tear the tank down.
Micah
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Sculpin
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 2:14am |
Well its done and it apears to be water tight. I know lots of you have exspessed your concernes about doing this and i get it. i dont want to seem like the guy who asks for advice and doesnt take it. Matter of fact almost everything i learn from you guys I apply. I know you think this is a very very bad idea but this last ditch effort appears to be doing the trick.
That said, my tank is running agian and that makes me and my fish very happy.
Micah
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Nick801
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 2:27am |
Hopefully its a rental =)? jk, hope it works for you guys. sucks when things like this happen
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 7:46am |
I sincerely hope that the tank lasts a long time. Knowing a little of
you and your father, I believe that your work on that corner will make
it last.
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Sculpin
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 11:01am |
Here is the fix-
So the tank is sandwiched between the wall and those aluminum angle-iron pieces under a significant amount of pressure.
And we did it to both sides just in case-
As for the center brace we re-siliconed it in and clamped it back together (thats what started it all, when that gave way) and we'll also be putting super small, stainless steal clamps that run the width of the tank just above the center brace.
Micah
Edited by Sculpin - January 26 2011 at 11:07am
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SGH360
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:48pm |
lets hope this will be a permanent fix. looks sturdy
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Sculpin
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Posted: January 29 2011 at 7:35pm |
Well we got the center brace in and the facade back on. Here are some pics if anyone is interested-
Center Brace
Again
And the tank as it is right now-
Over this whole mess we've lost some coral but I think the damage would of been worse if we had to set all these guys up in some kind of temporary housing for a month. Thanks for all the help, advice, and support. I'm pumped to get things working back they way they were.
Micah
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 30 2011 at 10:26am |
Awesome work. Is that all stainless, including the welds? It's easy to see that you guys have had a 'little' experience with metal fabrication.  You and your dads unique knowledge and experience with fabricating is going to help this tank last forever. This has been a learning experience for me. Please thank your dad for me. Now for the algae control. At this point the very best money you could spend on this tank would be to buy more snails (in addition to your recent purchase). Actually, knowing what the rock is like in this tank I would go local and get a few Pacific Turbo Snails. If they go to town on the algae I'd get about 10-15 of them and watch the algae start to disappear. I had suggested no feeding during the week you were in Las Vegas. Did they do that? Right now I would cut way back on feeding. There are tons of algae nutrients in this tank. There are some very good herbivorous fish in this tank. I can tell from the look of it, this is the type of algae problem that would respond perfectly to the method described here: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033Two days of blackout and one day uncovered with Actinic light only. Repeat this 2-3 times. Place a clean filter sock under the drain and siphon out dead algae with the hose straight into the filter sock. I'd have several replacement filter socks handy.  Also place a loose bag of PO4 remover at the return pump intake.
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