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Bob Kripfgans 
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 Topic: Banggai Cardnials
Posted: October 28 2007 at 4:20pm |
There are finally signs of courting going on.
Almost a year ago I was fortunate enough to aquire a few babies from Fish-4-you. These were tank raised from stock aquired from a fellow member a few years back. Unfortunately out of 9 only 2 survived. They are now in a planted tank and from what I have just witnessed very happy. I was afraid the they weren't or wouldn't be M/F and that my intentions of breeding would come to a halt.
Banaggai's are being depleted in the wild since they come from one area and are all to easy to capture. I though this would be a great way to contribute to the ongoing breeding and survival of the species.
Two weeks ago I made a trip to Urban Aquatics...a very informative trip I might add. I was told that there was research that indicated Banggai's will change sex as they mature...somthing like our favorites the clowns will do. Either I'm a very lucky man or it finally happened. I have a male and female.
More to follow on this subject. Hopefully new babies in the future  |
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Tooele,Ut.
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cl2ysta1
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 4:27pm |
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i picked up two from aquatica when i was up there. I tried to pick the two with the most different mouths. Hopefully they will be M and F and breed also!!!!!!!!!!!! I love banggais!!!! They are super sweet!
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 4:31pm |
That's awesome Bob. I'm glad to see you get back into this. I wish more people bred these fish. 
Mike
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 6:24pm |
I love em too.
I recently picked up what appear to be a mated pair.
Here's one of my old daddies with eggs in his mouth. Amie now has this guy and his mate. They are still breeding after 2 years. 
Here are some of their cute babies the day they were released.
Edited by Mark Peterson - October 28 2007 at 6:39pm
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Bob Kripfgans
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 6:41pm |
Hello Mark!
Yep ..when I started the venture it was mainly due to your breeding and raising a few. I know of a few members that were lucky enough to get some. That's my mission...I know Jeff Rasmussen is looking for a pair also.
According to some of the info that I aquired they like rock overhangs. I think it gives them a sense of security. I have a well planted bottom of mexicana which they are always lurking in and out of it. I know the male carries the eggs in his mouth until hatching. I have witnessed this at fish-4-u. Todd at Urban Aquatics also tells me that a clay flower pot is a good place for the to lay eggs. Is it that after the female lays eggs then the male picks them up and holds them until hatching.
Maybe you can enlighten me on this Mark or anyone who has knowledge on thier breeding habits. I will continue to Google for some answers.
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WMAS is da place!
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 8:23pm |
The clay pot works great for egg layers (anemonefishes) but is not used for cardinals. No tank mates and a lot of food certainly helps.
Adam
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cl2ysta1
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 8:48pm |
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ive read that they tend to lay more consistently if fed live foods. Many people purposely feed dead food to give the male a break for a bit.
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jeffras
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 9:27pm |
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I am currently looking for a cardinal to try and mate it one I have had for a while. Hard to find tank raised cardinals around here though.
I am very interested to know where the info about changing sexes came from. As far as my research is concerned that is not true.
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Jeff Rasmussen
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Bob Kripfgans
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 9:47pm |
Check this out > here they are spawning!
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WMAS is da place!
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Tooele,Ut.
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Gahlenfr
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 9:49pm |
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I have a couple of Marks offspring (his bangaii cardinals anyways) and they are great. One is male and one is female and I hope they spawn. They certainly are old enough now. They are amongst my most favorite fish.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 10:13pm |
Linda Spencer (LJBS)has bred them too. She is not often on the board though.
Mike
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Bob Kripfgans
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 10:50pm |
I spoke to Linda about her breeding Banggai's. It takes some persistence to calculate the right time when the male releases the eggs. After holding them for 18 to 20 days he's almost starved and will consume them out of hunger. This is a good find after my Google search today. Black spiney sea urchins are used to hide the babies from the hungry male. It seams that the spines from the urchin in the wild help to protect the young. They will hide between the spines. Sort of the old guppie breeder I use to have as a kid. It looked like a branch of an old x-mas tree it made a great hiding place for the newborn guppies. So I will go a little further. Some breeders use weedeater line. They drill holes in PVC caps and string the line thru to minic urchin spines. Has anyone seen black weedeater line?
What will mother nature think of next.
Edited by Bob Kripfgans - October 28 2007 at 10:54pm
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 11:35pm |
What will mother nature think of next.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 8:40am |
For people who raise these guys for a living....
They don't let the male carry them for long. Once the mail has the egss you can catch him and scare him until he releases the eggs. Then, raise the eggs somewhere else (like a little bucket with an airstone).
Put the male back in with the female. The faster you get the eggs from him the faster he begins eating again and the faster he will be ready for more eggs.
All the male does in the egg process is aerate the eggs.
Adam
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 9:12am |
 Bob Kripfgans wrote:
Urban Aquatics also tells me that a clay flower pot is a good place for the to lay eggs. Is it that after the female lays eggs then the male picks them up and holds them until hatching. |
Oh how misinformation does abound 
The video shows it. In a flash the female releases an egg, the male fertilizes it and then scoops it up in his mouth before it has a chance to drop away. It's done in a second or two. In my experience, they do this about 25 times. The male cannot hold much more than this.
If I'm not mistaken, Amie has some eggs developing right now.
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Gahlenfr
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 11:16am |
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As it turns out my male has eggs right this very moment. I looked at him last night and this morning since he has not been eating and his mouth is enlarged and sure enough there are eggs in there. What next? Adam you indicate that I should catch him and scare him into releasing the eggs. Just how is that accomplished? I thought I looked scary enought!
Edited by Gahlenfr - October 29 2007 at 11:16am
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 12:02pm |
Amie did it just two weeks ago. She have some insight here. For me, catch them in a net and that is usually all it takes. You may have to give him a little shaking.
Oh, but first get a place ready for the eggs. Like using a phosban reactor. Just put the eggs in there so they are slowly tumbling around.
Adam
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 2:00pm |
Gahlenfr wrote:
As it turns out my male has eggs right this very moment! |
Awesome!
I hope it works out.
Mike
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 2:59pm |
Adam Blundell wrote:
For people who raise these guys for a living....
They don't let the male carry them for long. Once the mail has the egss you can catch him and scare him until he releases the eggs. Then, raise the eggs somewhere else (like a little bucket with an airstone).
Put the male back in with the female. The faster you get the eggs from him the faster he begins eating again and the faster he will be ready for more eggs.
All the male does in the egg process is aerate the eggs.
Adam |
I would like to get more information about this, Adam. Do you have any references or reading material? I haven't been able to find any documentation of exactly how breeder's use this method. If they all do it, it seems like I should be able to find something.
My experiement went bust. All 29 of the eggs finally disentigrated and died. I think the male provides more than just aeration for the eggs, I think he provides protection and food for them as well once they hatch as larvae. (yes, I said larvae.)
It was an interesting experiment though. It gave me a better idea of what actually happens to them while they are in the male's mouth. When they were at about day 10, they actually hatched into larvae with yolksacs that were bigger than they were. The fry were still in some kind of a stasis. They weren't swimming or eating yet. They were just attached to the yolksac and moving with it. I was able to put one under the microscope and see that it was alive because it had a heartbeat. (which was incredible) I have some pictures, but they are on my other computer. I'll get them posted later.
As the yolksac slowly dissolved, the larvae seemed to get weaker and weaker until they slowly died. None of them ever swam or ate for themselves. I wonder if the male provides some sort of stimulation for them to start swimming.
It was all pretty fascinating, but sad as well.
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Gahlen, somewhere I have a video of actually catching the male and getting him to release the baby bangai's from his mouth. I will look that up as well.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 3:07pm |
Definitely fascinating and sad. I do look forward to seeing those pictures!
Mike
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