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ReefBones 
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 Topic: Yet another RO/DI question
Posted: May 14 2007 at 12:53pm |
Ok .. it seems that my TDS is slowly climbing again ... its back up to 70 PPM with a brand new RO filter and DI resin ... would it be possible to add a RO unit to my existing RO unit? ...
Another way is to add another DI chamber to my system ... would that help? ...
I am frustrated!!!
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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TriggerHappy
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 1:11pm |
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What is the TDS of your tap water to begin with? Are you positive that your TDS meter is properly claibrated? Are you using the two part (mixed)DI resin? Where are you buying your resin? Yes, in theory you could do both, add another RO and/or DI, but I don't see why you'd have to.
Edited by Camarofish - May 14 2007 at 1:12pm
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210 gallon Mixed Reef
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 1:48pm |
 Camarofish wrote:
What is the TDS of your tap water to begin with? |
according to my TDS meter its well above 2000 ppm
Camarofish wrote:
Are you positive that your TDS meter is properly claibrated? |
no however I cant seem to find any place to buy the calabration fluid .. but its pretty new .. I have 2 of them .. one inline with the RO/DO unit .. and a hand held one .. they bolth read well above 2000 ppm
Camarofish wrote:
Are you using the two part (mixed)DI resin? |
not sure what you are asking here ...
Camarofish wrote:
Where are you buying your resin? |
I bought it from Marine Aquatics
Camarofish wrote:
Yes, in theory you could do both, add another RO and/or DI, but I don't see why you'd have to. |
Well I dont either .. I bought the full unit from Marine Aquatics and I think it dose well .. however the TDS is still high ...
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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jfinch
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 3:19pm |
Where do you live? 2000 ppm tds tap water is really off the charts.
95% removal is "typical" of RO. If your tapwater is really 2000 ppm then you might expect 0.05 x 2000 = 100 ppm tds effluent. Are you sure your meter isn't off a decimal point, i.e. your tap is 200.0 not 2000?
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 3:23pm |
Well .. its reads 396 and the x10 flashes on bolth of the meters so ...
I am so frustrated that I am about to just have bottled water delivered ...
I just replaced the carbon filters (there are 2 of them) hoping that will help .. and no go ...
BTW I am in Magna ...
Edited by thebutler4 - May 14 2007 at 3:27pm
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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jfinch
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 3:59pm |
Are the meters set to "ppm" range or are they set to measure resistivity and have units of "ohm"?
3960 ohm =~ 350-400 ppm tds
I have never heard of tap water with 2000 ppm tds. Although tds are not strictly regulated on a national level, it is part of the (unenforceable) secondary drinking water standard with a max of 500 ppm tds. In Utah we can go as high as 2000 ppm, but if it's higher then 1000 ppm the water district must prove that there is no other source in the area that is better. I've got to think that 2000 ppm tds water is going to actually taste salty.
Most of the water I've tested along the wasatch front is in the 200 - 400 ppm range.
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 4:04pm |
Jon,
I would be more than greatfull if you could test my water next time you are in the area ....or anyone else that has a calabrated TDS meter ... please come over and see what my TDS is ...
ya its reading well over 2000 ppm ... I will take a picture and post it ... the water here is awfull and tasts really bad ... thats why 90% of the people who live out here drink bottled water .. lol ...
Edited by thebutler4 - May 14 2007 at 4:06pm
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 4:58pm |
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Would a water softener cause my high TDS? ... I always though that was a filter system and was to remove TDS ...
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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jfinch
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 5:17pm |
Wow, you got terrible water! Do you go to any of the monthly meetings? If so, pour some tap water into a zip lock bag and bring it and I'll test it (please remind me about this before the meeting... I'm losing my memory).
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jfinch
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 5:18pm |
Your water softener should not significantly change your tds.
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 5:30pm |
Should I add another DI chamber to my system? I could add another RO unit .. but it would be much cheeper to add a second DI ...
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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Ed Taylor
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 7:46pm |
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I think your best bet is going to buy water from the LFS.
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155 Bowfront
90 tall, tangs, softies
70 tall, fresh
72 bowfront FO (sons tank)
55 fresh (sons)
30 hex fresh (daughter's)
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 7:49pm |
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ya .. 64 gallons a week is a lot to be hauling let alone buying .. lol ..
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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gateb
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 8:46pm |
Originally posted by Camarofish
Are you using the two part (mixed)DI resin?
The way to tell is if you have one or two resin canisters. If you only have one you have a mixed bed resin - that is you have anion and cation resins mixed together. If you have two resin canisters you most likely have a dual DI unit like mine. I bought some Spectra Pure color indicator anion and cation resins about 2 years ago and still have some left. One is green and the other is blue, can't remember which is which. The anion resin goes faster since it will pull carbonates as well as phosphates and nitrates out of the RO water. I check every batch several times as I've found that the resin still does its job after the color has changed to brown.
Once I put my anion cartridge in upside down and I was getting over 200 ppm effluent. I'm really careful to make sure that I put the cartridge in correctly now. Also if your resin is spent it will start exchanging ions that it absorbed back ito the effluent.
Anyway I bought a gallon of each 2 years ago and haven't used all of it yet:
The advantages of a dual bed DI unit are that you only have to change the one that has used up its capacity and that you can recharge them. You use Muratic Acid to recharge the cation resin and Sodium Hydroxide to recharge the anion resin. Maybe I'll try recharging mine one I've used it up.
Edited by gateb - May 14 2007 at 8:54pm
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120 Gal RR
2 Pan World 100PX return pumps
AquaC EV-180 w\Mag 9
40 + 13 Gal refugia
2 175w Iwasaki Aqua2 MH
4 48" URI Super Actinic VHO
IceCap MH and VHO Ballasts
Ogden, UT
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gateb
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 9:09pm |
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Just wanted to add that when I moved my tank here last summer I left my dual bed DI system back at the house in Missouri and bought an Ebay RO/DI unit to get my by until the house sold. The DI resin was depleted after about 150 - 200 gallons so I bought one of those tapwater cartidges at PetSmart to get some resin to fill the canister. Didn't get many batches out of it before the TDS started to climb again. IMHO the mixed bed resin just doesn't cut it as the anion resin will deplete long before the cation resin will. If you're planning on using DI, dual bed is the best way to go.
Edited by gateb - May 14 2007 at 9:10pm
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120 Gal RR
2 Pan World 100PX return pumps
AquaC EV-180 w\Mag 9
40 + 13 Gal refugia
2 175w Iwasaki Aqua2 MH
4 48" URI Super Actinic VHO
IceCap MH and VHO Ballasts
Ogden, UT
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 10:47pm |
gateb .. thank you for the information .. I just went up to Marine Aquatics and bought another DI chamber to add to my current setup ... what would the possibility that I can buy some of that resin that you have left over? ... I would be very interested in trying what you are suggesting ...
Currently I am running a greeish resin and the new DI chamber has a red/rust color resin ... I dont know if that is anything that you are talking about but .....
Thanks again for the information ..
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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gateb
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 11:02pm |
Sorry but I will probably need to change some resin again soon so I can't really spare any. I just have a little of the anion resin left as it can go pretty fast sometimes. As far as the color goes, I think it can vary with the manufacturer.
Before your TDS starts climbing again you might want to buy some of each type of resin to prepare to start running dual bed. The way you want to set it up is to have your RO effluent go into the cation resin first, then the anion resin. What this does is remove the metal (positive ions) first, replacing them with H+ ions. Then the effluent from that goes into the anion resin to remove the bases (negative ions like PO4, NO3 and unfortunately carbonates) replacing them with OH- ions.
The reason I say "unfortunately carbonates" is that carbonates aren't harmful, but they basically waste the capacity of anion resin that could be better used for removing the harmful stuff we are trying to remove.
I just love seeing "0" on my TDS meter!
If you ever want some help in setting it up or want to see how I set mine up, just let me know and I'll help you out.
Edited by gateb - May 14 2007 at 11:24pm
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120 Gal RR
2 Pan World 100PX return pumps
AquaC EV-180 w\Mag 9
40 + 13 Gal refugia
2 175w Iwasaki Aqua2 MH
4 48" URI Super Actinic VHO
IceCap MH and VHO Ballasts
Ogden, UT
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TriggerHappy
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 11:27pm |
I totally agree with gateb. My begining TDS is <200 ppm so I just use a mixed DI system. If you want to do an online order of anion and cation try this guy:
My concern was that perhaps your DI resin was not a mix or somthing, but 2000 ppm is insane!
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210 gallon Mixed Reef
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 11:30pm |
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Sounds great! .. I can use all the help with this issue that I can get ... on payday I will order the resin that you suggested .. and if you can would you be willing to look over things? ... I dont know what or if I am doing wrong ... lol .. I added the red/rust color resin to the system and the TDS is back down to 17 ppm .. so ... I have it going threw the greenish resin first then the rust color resin ...
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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ReefBones
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 11:31pm |
Camarofish wrote:
I totally agree with gateb. My begining TDS is <200 ppm so I just use a mixed DI system. If you want to do an online order of anion and cation try this guy:
My concern was that perhaps your DI resin was not a mix or somthing, but 2000 ppm is insane!
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the 2678 ppm is strate out of my tap water .. thats not after the RO/DI .. I am not sure if you mis understood or not .. but ya its freeking way up there! ...
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140 gallon Reef
65 gallon Reef
55 gallon Aggressive
www.thesalttank.com
801-865-6074
"encourage other divers and sea enthusiasts to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles"
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