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unixnum1 
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 Topic: Building new glass tank
Posted: March 24 2006 at 12:23pm |
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I am starting a project on building a new large ~240G glass tank.
I have seen several methods of the sides attached to the bottom.
What is best in a large tank:
1.The sides resting on top of the bottom pane.
2.The sides go down all the way to the base stand with the bottom pane inside the side panes?
The way I see it, method 1 makes for easier, tighter joints.
Method 2, keeps any shear weight of the sides off of the bottom pane
which already has alot of weight to deal with (water, rock, and sand).
The other question is how much silicone do you want between the joints.
In small tanks you want a tight joint.
I have read in large tanks you need thick silicone between the joints
so the glass doesn't crack due to thermal and physical stresses.
Ideas?
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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Mike Savage
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Posted: March 24 2006 at 2:56pm |
Kevin, have you built tanks before? You can search this board there is a thread about CoreyK building his 60 gallon cube (24" cube) he has some tips in there. Also in that thread Adam Haycock expressed his interest in building a glass tank. I've been meaning to ask him if he ever did but haven't yet. He might be a good source of information. GARF website has a calculator for the glass sizes. Corey said in his post the calculator didn't figure for the silicone thickness in some areas. The high end custom tanks use "Black" silicone maybe this would look good on your tank? Have you thought about how to keep the corners square while they dry or how to set one heavy piece of glass onto another to eliminate or avoid air bubbles? What type of bracing are you going to use on the top? I am real interested in this project and wish you well. One last thing are you going to use low-iron glass (starfire)?
Mike
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unixnum1
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Posted: March 24 2006 at 3:26pm |
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Mike,
I have built small tanks before out of acrylic and glass, they weren't hard.
I have searched all of the threads about tank building but must have missed Corey's.
I will look at it.
I have checked GARF's calculator but wasn't to impressed.
I actually used calculations from:
http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/technical/glassthickness
I was planning on using the black silicone with euro style bracing
For building it, I will make a form so all pieces will fit perfectly.
However, before I build the form, I need to know how to do the sides to bottom thing.
I am not sure how to avoid the bubbles but I have never had to worry about them before.
Since I will be using a form with a method to raise and lower the
glass, I am not to concerned if I have to pull a piece out and do it
again.
Yes, I will be using starfire/crystal clear for all viewable surfaces.
It only costs ~100 more which I think is worth the cost.
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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jfinch
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Posted: March 24 2006 at 3:32pm |
The large tanks I've seen seem to have about a 1/16" silicone joint, so I'd shoot for that. Use two 1/16" drill bits as spacers at each end of a joint and masking tape every six inches stretched across the joint to hold it in place while it sets. Set the sides on the bottom. I think silicone is going to be stronger in shear then expansion, this will keep the sides at the bottom from blowing out.
And if you want professional looking joints, run a strip of masking tape to the side of each joint on each piece of glass the whole length of the joint about 1/8" - 1/4" from the joint. The silicone will squeeze out of the joint and onto the tape. Now take a 1/2" or 3/4" diameter piece of pvc pipe (about 3" long) and run the end along the joint to create a concave silicone joint. Then pull the tape up before the silicone dries. This makes a great looking joint.
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Skyetone
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Posted: March 24 2006 at 5:38pm |
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my 225 6x24x30 has the glass on the sides. I have recyliconed the corners with about a 1/8 to 3/16th thick bead. there is very little gap between the glass pieces. it always blows me away to see, cuz thats all thats holding thousands of lbs together. I hear you can buy the cheesy black bracing from the dealors. but have never tried it. my glass tank weighs close to 300lbs dry. its older and probably 3/8 inch thick. brave man. I thought about using steel framework to make a template. Really paranoid. whats cost on just the glass? where are you getting it locally? What is the biggest tank you have glass that you made?
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I will just give my warning that your system will flood, bulbs will burn out, and things will take continuous maintenance... get over it.
Magna
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unixnum1
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 10:20am |
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So far the best/cheapest supplier I have found is BeeHive.
They have it in stock.
The largest tank I have made has been small, 35G hex.
I have been debating making an aluminum base frame for it since that is where all of the outword force will be.
However, that would then raise the sides up so the bottom would not be
flat with the sides. I could put a 1/8" glass sheet on the bottom to
make it the same height but seems a little cheasy to me.
So I might just make an aluminum band (1/8"x2") that goes around the base and clamps in the back.
I have also thought about making the base be the frame.
I could have the tank sit down in a 2" deep pocket?
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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jfinch
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 11:38am |
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The bottom of commercially built tanks don't sit flat either. They're supported off the stand by the bottom support. Glass tanks don't need center support the way acrylic tanks do.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 2:06pm |
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I agree with Jon. I don't think I have ever seen a glass thank where the bottom glass rests on the surface. They rest on the frame.
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vkfu
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 2:52pm |
Here is a page with some fairly detailed instructions: http://www.austinglass.com.au/aquariums.htmlGood luck!
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Cottonwood Heights, UT
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unixnum1
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 3:57pm |
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Useful page.
Thanks
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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danielk
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 12:50am |
Any idea on the cost of the glass at Beehive? Glass cages in Tennesee will sell low iron 1/2" for $15.00 sq. ft. Alas they won't ship just cut glass. I just bought an acrylic 180 from faviasteve. I'm not a real fan of acrylic but this one is new although with some history, but all I have to do is weld up a stand and prestola: reef city!
I really would like to build a Starfire 230 someday; closed loop returns, horizontal overflow, pretty much the works, but all I need is another half baked project on my list. I built a cool little drill press just to drill tanks with; it has a solid base with a well to keep water on the bit and will drill up to a 3" hole. I was going to add a vacuum pump so it could suck tight to the glass but it stays pretty solid just with the neoprene gasket.
I paid Mitch a visit at Inter-American last summer in Calgary Alberta to place an order but by the looks of the place decided otherwize. He showed me the difference between Starfire and plate glass and Starfire is NICE! He was using a GE 1200 series silicone, but I can't find much info about it here. Through McMaster-Carr I did find some Dow Corning 795; it is supposed to have excellent strength and is FDA approved when cured.
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1.6180339!
Hailing from the idaho side of cache valley.
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jfinch
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 9:16am |
1.6180339!
What is... the root of x2 - x - 1 = 0 ?
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Mike Savage
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:15am |
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AC/BC = BC/AB =1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576
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unixnum1
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:30am |
What is it with you guy's? 
Beehive had the starfire for ~17sf. That makes it worth buying it from them.
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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Mike Savage
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:38am |
 unixnum1 wrote:
What is it with you guy's?
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Go Figure
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Mike Savage
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:40am |
unixnum1 wrote:
Beehive had the starfire for ~17sf. That makes it worth buying it from them. |
Sounds like a good price. Is that cut to size or is there additional charge for that?
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unixnum1
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:53am |
You know, I forgot to ask.
I am sure there is. Probably a per-cut charge.
The plate glass was ~15
FYI, this is all 1/2" glass that was quoted.
One concern I had was that the thickness calcs I did, show that 1/2" is ok for the sides, but the bottom should be 5/8" .
1/2" still works but has a much lower safety factor.
I figured that having the bottom uniformly supported would help out, correct?
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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jfinch
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 12:31pm |
I figured that having the bottom uniformly supported would help out, correct?
I think you're right. If I were building a tank myself, I'd set the bottom on a big sheet of 1/2" styrofoam insulation (Home Depot) and then you shouldn't have to worry about it at all.
$15 - $17 per ft2? Jeez, that comes in at close to $650 for a 210 gallon tank... that's essentially retail at the fish store  . All-glass must have a very small margin on their tanks.
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unixnum1
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 1:04pm |
You are correct, it is not cheap.
Unfortunately my tank is slightly custom (angles at the front corners and not standard size)
combined with the custom size and angles, the cheapest I could find was $3K 
(except for allglass but shipping doubled the cost)
So, I then decided to build the tank my self.
I am planning on pre-building the tank out of 1/2" ply wood (includes all angles).
I will give the plywood to BeeHive and say "give me glass just like this" (except not brown and clear).
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220G with 30G sump, SPS/LPS. RoboTank Controller. =====================================
If life is a bowl of cherry's,
why am I always the stem?
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Mike Savage
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 3:37pm |
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I think that's a great way to do it.
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