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Mark Peterson 
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 Posted: October 29 2007 at 5:52pm |
For those not prepared to risk losing all the eggs, waiting until the babies have hatched is how many of us have done it. Sometimes the eggs disappear but that's usually just the first batch. Once the male gets the hang of it, he holds them full term. IMO, the pair should be in at least a 30 gal tank by themselves or if a community reef, at least 55 gal.
It's good to feed really well for weeks prior to the spawning. Then watch the male closely every day. At about day 20 the fry will hatch and instead of seeing red eggs, you should see the little tails hanging out of his mouth.
That night you wait till the tank and room lights have been off for at least 1/2 hour then with net in hand, turn on the tank lights and net dad. It's surprising how easy it is to catch dad when he's momentarily blinded by the lights. He will usually drop the babies immediately or you might have to chase him around, or catch him and gently shake the babies out of his mouth.
Thanks to Amie for all these pics. Here is my hand trying to catch the dad.
Can you see the baby next to daddy?
Edited by Mark Peterson - October 29 2007 at 6:06pm
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BobC63
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 6:00pm |
For sexing, we are looking at jaw structure (male vs. female)... correct?
What about the dorsal fin thing? I was told that "on males the second 'spine' is much longer than the first..."
However, to me, the 2 fish in the video - obviously a male and a female - their dorsals look very simialr if not exactly the same.
Is the dorsal fin length not an accurate determiner for sexing these fish?
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 6:16pm |
You are correct, the dorsal fin is a totally unreliable way of sexing. In fact, in my experience the only way to be sure you have a pair is to buy 3-4 fish and let them do the pairing.
After the male has carried his first batch of eggs full term to fry, his jaw will usually be much more square or will look slightly swollen compared to the female. If you are familiar with the look of a Cutthroat trout, the red mark usually appears when the jaw is distended. Without eggs this distension can be noticable in a male Bangaii, minus the red mark of course.  |
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jeffras
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 6:21pm |
 Mark Peterson wrote:
You are correct, the dorsal fin is a totally unreliable way of sexing.
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I agree. I have been giving this a ton of thought. I hate the idea of buying three-four and then pulling them later. So here is my thought. The males are extremely aggressive so why not use a mirror? Wouldn't you be able to tell the sex if the fish becomes aggressive to its reflection?
Edited by jeffras - October 29 2007 at 6:21pm
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Jeff Rasmussen
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BobC63
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 6:29pm |
Right now I have 2 Banggais; one is slightly larger than the other... to me their jawlines look similar but the bigger one looks a little more "squarejawed" I would call it.... But that could mean something or nothing. I mean, maybe they are both the same sex but different ages - or maybe the opposite sex and the same age (or different ages, too)???
I will say they spend a good amount of time together, though not inseparable by any means...
And I always thought that agression was by the pair towards any other Banggais; not neccesarily only male -to- male...so I don't know that a mirror would work. (But then again, it might  )
I can say that in my case my 2 Cardinals they are not agressive towards each other.
Which could mean something - or again, nothing...?
(I think I am back where I started. Just "make babies" if you are going to, OK guys???  )
Edited by carlso63 - October 29 2007 at 6:30pm
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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jeffras
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 6:35pm |
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I have read online that if you have a male and place another male in the tank you will have a fight. But there is very little info out there regarding this.
I think the mirror might work because I have a single fish which I believe to be male. It spends all day showing aggression to the glass in the tank. It only started this after I scraped the coralline algae from the glass for the reef tour.
It would be great for someone with a mated pair to place a mirror in and see what the male does.
Would you say both of your fish have hit maturity? How large are they?
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Jeff Rasmussen
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BobC63
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 6:44pm |
They are about 1.5 - 1.75" long; the larger one looks a little "beefier" than the smaller one.
They hang out together alot - but not always.
I have never seen either one display any agression to the glass or any other fish. However, they are some of the smaller fish I have (together with 2 oscellaris clowns about the same size) plus I only have about 9 fish total in my 125g - all under 3" except for the 5+" Foxface... so it is a pretty peacefull setup, with lots of hiding places, etc...
I have had them 3 months now. Got them from Birdworld. There were 5 or 6 of them in the display tank at the time...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
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JayTee
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 6:48pm |
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If anyone is successful at breeding and raising the Bengaii, I would be very interested in purchasing a few (4-6). I have purchased some in the past, not knowing that their numbers have been depleted in the wild (which really upsets me that I contributed to that), but I had no luck with them. They all developed a mouth fungus and quit eating - this happened on two seperate attempts. I want to try it again, now that I fell I have a better, more mature system now.
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Jeremy
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 7:19pm |
Amie-
Ask Dr. Marini, he has raised more Bangaii than anyone. He shakes the male every time. He uses an egg tumbler (I saw some for sale for $5 on the freshwater site recently).
The male is just a holding tank for the eggs. Otherwise he is completely useless.
Adam
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Bob Kripfgans
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 8:14pm |
Here's a few links of intrest. One by Dr. Marini these are great articles.
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Bob Kripfgans
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 8:38pm |
Here's one more personel observation about sexing the Banggai's. We talk about the slightly longer second dorsel in the males. For the most part store bought fish go thru the trama of shipping which almost always destroys what I have observed on my male. The second dorsel fin consists of a white frontal line followed by a black middle section followed by yet another line of a seemingly transparent speckled edge on the dorsel.
Since my pair was raised from fry they had ideal conditions that perserved this delicate dorsel fin. What I mean by this I have low flow and no other fish that would compete or destroy this characteristic.
I have noticed the black center extends between the front and rear that seems to be seperated at it's tip and extends further than that of the female. This tip does not seen to be supported and gives sort of a waving flag effect. Like I said most of these fins are either damaged during shipment or by other fish in a reef enviornmet. The above articles state depending on age you will notice the squaring of the jaw on older males which is one thier most common distinguishing characteristics.
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WMAS is da place!
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 9:38pm |
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Great articles, Bob. Still none of them mentioning taking the eggs before hatching though.
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 9:52pm |
Adam Blundell wrote:
Amie-
Ask Dr. Marini, he has raised more Bangaii than anyone. He shakes the male every time. He uses an egg tumbler (I saw some for sale for $5 on the freshwater site recently).
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Oh sure, I'll just get out my address book. Just a sec...I'm looking....I'm sure it's here somewhere...wait a minute, ....Dang, someone must have stolen his phone number from my address book - it's not here!
Adam Blundell wrote:
The male is just a holding tank for the eggs.
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Well, there's that .. plus the fertilizing thingy that he does before he puts the eggs in his mouth.
Adam Blundell wrote:
Otherwise he is completely useless.
Adam |
I'm not going to touch that one.
Edited by Amie - October 29 2007 at 9:53pm
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 10:03pm |
I was wondering if that would end up on a sig line.
Mike
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 10:36pm |
Amie-
Dr. Marini is the head guy on MOFIB. I thought you'd know that with all your time on marinebreeder.  If you post on there under the cardinal forum I'm sure he'll see it. Or pm him there. He's been running fish breeding forums for over 7 years now.
Adam
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cl2ysta1
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 10:47pm |
Adam Blundell wrote:
Amie-
Ask Dr. Marini, he has raised more Bangaii than anyone. He shakes the male every time. He uses an egg tumbler (I saw some for sale for $5 on the freshwater site recently).
The male is just a holding tank for the eggs. Otherwise he is completely useless.
Adam |
Oh he does a LITTLE bit more than just hold the eggs 
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 29 2007 at 10:52pm |
Nope, like males of most species he is useless. Trust me, there are plenty of other males happy to help in the fertilization part. He's pretty much just an incubator.
Adam
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Dutch
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Posted: October 30 2007 at 10:54am |
Amie I'd like to have a pair when you have some that are ready!
Dutch
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Posted: October 30 2007 at 2:11pm |
Adam Blundell wrote:
Nope, like males of most species he is useless. Trust me, there are plenty of other males happy to help in the fertilization part. He's pretty much just an incubator.
Adam |
What are you talking about? I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call you on this one.
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Posted: October 30 2007 at 4:11pm |
Adam Blundell wrote:
Amie-
Dr. Marini is the head guy on MOFIB. I thought you'd know that with all your time on marinebreeder. |
Actually I do, and he's not. Well, if you mean by 'head guy', you mean 'star' on the forum, then yes, he's there along with Martin Moe. Neither of them have posted much over there. But he didn't actually start the forum.
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