All great comments above.

Edited by Mark Peterson - February 26 2017 at 7:03pm

I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I've known Mark for almost 11 years now. He saved my very first tank after a crash. He drove from Bountiful to Suncrest with chaeto, water and sand. Helped me setup a hang on the back refugium and helped me get everything back on track. I've forever remembered that gesture.

As for the situation, I'm not surprised by the actions of either party here.

achillestang wrote: The original post by Mark brings up many more questions than it answers.  Such as; 1)  When did Mark's conversation with this purchaser of LR begin?  Was he stalking him during purchase, or did Mark just stumble upon him while he was loading his purchases in his car?   2)  How many other times has Mark been observed by the LFS owner offering his "expertise" while he was in that particular store?  Why couldn't Mark learn anything from his previous reprimands and continued do do exactly what the LFS owner asked him not to do?  3)  Why would Mark surmise that his reprimand, and subsequent banning, assume it has anything to do with any perceived "pinch" that resulted in other recent LFS closings? I could go on and on.  I can easily see how any LFS owner would get upset while observing someone handing our business cards - it can easily be perceived that Mark was trying to drum up business for himself while under-cutting the LFS. Just my random ponderings.

Instead of pondering, why don't you ask Mark? I bet you'd get your answer without pondering.

Mark recognizes his own shortcomings.

With Eddie and Shane.

Adam

i haven't seen this much action on the boards in a long time

This has morphed into a Mark discussion, so what the heck, I'll chime in. This is Eddy speaking as an individual and not as a presidency member. The comments below do not reflect the views or thoughts or ideas or have anything to do with the presidency!!

First off, Mark, your response after the negative comments started rolling in where you say, "I appreciate all comments and am taking them seriously" was very big of you. You could have very easily (and justifiably) gone defensive or gone offensive, but you didn't. And, the fact that you didn't just blow it off and took (are taking) it serious and listened (are listening) to the comments is very admirable and commendable. Ashamedly, I don't know if I would have the character to respond the same.

I haven't know Mark as long as a lot of the people on here (I think it's been 8 years now) and there are a couple of things I've noticed.

1. There is a difference between how Mark comes across online and in person.
I bet if you were able go through all the people who have butted heads with Mark, 90% of them happened online and not in person. When you get to know Mark in person and talk to him, you realize, like love2skiutah said, Mark really does have a good heart and is genuinely trying to help. However, online, I don't know why but that genuine caring and sincere desire to help gets lost. Statements like, "I've been at this for a very long time, intensely via the WMAS, via this forum and via all the experts whose brains I've picked over the years. I may have seen more incidents like this than most hobbyists or professionals" and "Take it from one who has more experience than he knows what to do with" comes across as egotistic, rude, and brash. The constant references to go buy items from Mark seem self benefiting rather then helpful. So, if a person doesn't know Mark or mainly deals with him online, the potential for offense is higher then if, like John said, someone is working or talking face to face with Mark.

2. Mark helps a lot of people.
Regardless of Mark's methods, I don't know of anyone who is more willing to help out someone in need then Mark. If someone has a problem, Mark is the first one to volunteer to go over and help. How many of us are willing to drop everything we're doing in an instant to go over to help? For example Mark's post yesterday, "I can have some on your doorstep in 10 minutes." I would venture that Mark does more to newcomers then anyone else in the club. It's because he really does care.

3. People have left the club because of Mark.
People leave the club because of conflicts with other people, not just Mark. With that said, I personally have had a half dozen people or so tell me they don't want to be in the club anymore because of confrontations or comments from Mark. All of them except for 1 were on the forum. I'm sure if Mark realized that those people were being pushed away, he wouldn't do it. My opinion (and this is just my opinion) is that Mark likes the debate and like to have the argument. It's fun and he like the banter. But not all people (like these ones that left) like that. They don't like conflict. A couple of those who left weren't even in discussions with Mark, but they saw/read how he answered other people's posts and so they stopped because they didn't want him to answer their post like that and they didn't want to read his posts on others. So, does that mean Mark should stop posting? Of course not! Could he use a little more tack in what he says absolutely! (we all could for that matter!)

4. Tact
These items are good practice for everyone (including me!) and not meant to single out Mark.
In reefing, there are lots of ways to do something. It's respectful to acknowledge and not belittle other ways of doing something.
Example: Someone asks, "I'm setting up a new tank 90 gallon mixed reef tank. Do I need a skimmer?"
Rather than stating, Yes or not, it's respectful to acknowledge both sides. So a response could be, "People have successful mixed reef tanks with and without a skimmer. I prefer X because..." Then if and when someone lists a contrary preference, there's no need to start a banter or argument about if they need a skimmer or not in that thread. (if you want to have a debate about it, feel free to create your own thread! I'm as guilty as anyone in doing that not starting a thread and just debating in their thread.)

It's polite to use conditional words rather than absolutes.
Example of absolute words, "Macro algae will solve nuisance algae problems in a reef tank. Macro algae removes..."
Example of conditional words, "There are lots of ways to deal with nuisance algae in a reef tank, I like using macro algae. For me, I've found it removes..."

See how the second response recognizes peoples other methods and keeps the response focused the the speaker's experiences rather then implying that the speaker's way is superior to other ways? The root of both responses is how macro algae can help, but the wording to get there is different. Save the absolutes for essay (like this post turned out... )

That's about it! Hopefully this was constructive to someone and can help us get past the bad mojo and back to enjoying our tanks!

Thanks for all comments, both by way of constructive criticism and by way of support. 

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." - Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Mark Peterson - February 22 2017 at 12:13pm

I don't think ANYONE in this group cares about someone posting about saving money and doing things different.  It's not that, it's the fact that Mark sometimes comes off confrontational in a way that it's "his way or the highway" and sometimes people get tired of it.  And whether he likes it or not, that's how he sometimes comes off.  I see people snap at him from time to time, (even me sometimes ) but he's just trying to help.

I am also saddened to see people gang up on Mark.  I have met Mark on a few occasions and found him to be friendly and always willing to impart his knowledge.  I know his tone here is interesting, but I personally have nothing bad to say about him.

Wow!
I never knew that people could be offended by someone suggesting an alternative way to do things that could save them money. I've always been offended by the people who act like it is a contest to show how fat your bill fold is. I guess that is why I've never been offended by Mark.
But Mark, you should know better, especially if you have been asked not to before.
Fish4U has always been my favorite fish store.