Banned from Fish-4-U
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Forum Name: General Discussion
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82052
Printed Date: April 27 2024 at 10:15pm
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Topic: Banned from Fish-4-U
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Subject: Banned from Fish-4-U
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 10:40am
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Yep, I am not welcome at Fish4U. About a month ago I was talking to a gentleman out in the parking lot, giving him a WMAS business card and suggesting he get some lively LR to add to the LR he had just purchased. This was not the first time I had been reprimanded for talking about the club at Fish-4-U. It was the final straw. I know that I am a little too aggressive at promoting the WMAS. In some ways it is my baby, albeit, grown up.  I believe the WMAS has made the local hobby stronger and has helped the LFS do more business by helping more locals enjoy the hobby longer. I conclude this from the comments we hear from people moving here or visiting from out of town. They remark how many LFS there are for the size of Salt Lake City and also how the LFS here are of such good quality.Kris Fidone is always such a friendly guy and a great WMAS supporter. Yesterday I tried to apologize. According to our conversation, it's not the club, it's just me that he doesn't appreciate. He believes I am driving business away. I am not sure about that. They have been my top rated LFS for many years and I state it often here in the forum. I'm pretty sure Kris is feeling the same pinch that resulted in the closure last year of the valleys two largest LFS. The pinch is evident in how he and Carrie have been spending more time at the store and how they seem to have less employees. I wish them all the best. Aloha, Mark  P.S. Hows that for drama.
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Replies:
Posted By: reefnfeef
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 3:19pm
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sounds pretty reasonable if you're soliciting in their parking lot, especially if it wasn't the first time. I'd probably do the same thing if I were Kris. I don't see any good reason for this vain post. ------------- aaaaaaaaaaaaaannd.... I'm broke |
Posted By: fishyman19
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 3:38pm
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First off, I mean no offense to you at all by this post and I do apologize before hand if I do offend you, you have given me some useful data on here, but why did you feel the need to post about this? Do people really come to this forum to look for posts like this? Or care at all? And in my opinion it's the store owners complete right to ban anyone he deems unfit to be in their store. Especially if you have already been asked to stop promoting the forum there. Especially if you are outside talking to people about getting added things from what they bought. You acted like a used care salesmen. No one likes those. Who knows maybe people have complained about having you out in the parking lot approaching them. And then you have the balls to assume that he has been this way towards you because his store might be struggling. I just find it really hard to respect a person that tries to justify getting in trouble or "banned" by a store for something they did wrong, by assuming the other person must be at fault. I mean come on man, you screwed up, not Kris. He asked you to stop before and you continued to think that he's wrong about this and you know best so you honestly got what you deserved. Grow up be a man and don't come on here looking for sympathy. ------------- 90 Gallon mixed reef. Wife's 12 gallon nano cube mixed reef! |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 3:59pm
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We have discussed this in the past, and I am certain you will not understand or wish to listen, but your attitude and clear lack of respect for others is the reason you are banned. There are two main points to your claim; one is that you are essentially harassing clients of said LFS, and the other being your WMAS support. LFS: This store, from your story, has every right to tell you to not loiter around and advise their customers of better deals, Utah live rock, DIY projects, etc. Based on your posts, I do not doubt that you were pitching your services, or trying to sell your own stuff, in what may be a competitors parking lot. WMAS: I also happen to run into several people who know of the WMAS, however, have left. I am 99.9% certain that this club has not made the hobby stronger, however, has possible deterred people from this hobby. I have been told a number of times that your attitude has turned many people away. This club is necessary and people love it, but there are a lot of people who simply checkout and ignore it, because of such posts. The people who make this club stronger are the ones in charge now. I think in order to make the club grow, and to make others feel welcome, you need to calm the hell down with your know-it-all and belittling approach. It is all not you, but since you posted this, I will blame you for a decent amount of it. Others will find my words harsh, however, I am also addicted in this hobby and because of it, have heard the feedback from dozens and dozens of people. The hobby is growing and the stores in SLC should not be a gauge of it. There are many online vendors who are growing year over year, which implies that people simply want to purchase online for the most part. But I digress, let this be a club again and stop screwing with people. We all get it, you have a fish tank and can keep corals alive. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: scfurse77
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 4:24pm
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I have to agree with Marcoss. I think it's a little "fishy" that you talk about how much you support the local fish stores around here and hope they succeed and then someone will post something like "Anyone know where i can buy a reactor here locally?" and your reply would be. "Well since i've been in this hobby for 43 1/2 years i can build you one for $3.65. How is this helping or supporting any LFS??? This is an every day occurrence with you. For the newbie in the hobby it would seem like you were actually trying to help them out and save them money but in reality it's all for you're own benefit and it sickens me. There is an obvious trend here and you have offended a lot of people including myself on more than one occasion. I appreciate you opening up this door for everyone to express thoughts on this matter. You should rename the thread to: (Let's all bash Mark). You brought this all on yourself. Who goes to a LFS and hands out cards for a fish club? Obviously you had ulterior motives here. And to be honest i'm surprised that this club (WMAS) hasn't banned you along every other fish store in the area. How's that for drama?
------------- CADLIGHTS 42 Versa, 20 Gallon Sump, ATI Dimmable 8 Bulb T5 w/SbReef Lights Sbar, Bubble Muggus Skimmer and really mad wife :) |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 4:41pm
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I think it's important that we can discuss issues on this board and I thinks it's OK to have differences in opinion. I don't even mind letting these things ride out on here so that our members have a voice. Let's just keep our voice civil and respectful. I'm not saying its not so far but let's not walk the fine line. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 5:17pm
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Kris has every right to ask me not to enter his store or to talk to people in his parking lot. I'm not upset about it. I believe I also understand how many of you have strong opinions of how this happened because of the way I am. There are issues I must deal with. Life can be complicated. I have definitely changed in good ways and bad. Thanks to everyone who has already or will soon add their 2 cents. I appreciate all the comments and am taking them seriously. Aloha, Mark P.S. This causes me to reflect on some of the drama associated other LFS in the past and things that have happened in the WMAS and it's relationship with individuals and organizations in Utah. Ahh, the stories that could be told.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 8:18pm
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Wow! I never knew that people could be offended by someone suggesting an alternative way to do things that could save them money. I've always been offended by the people who act like it is a contest to show how fat your bill fold is. I guess that is why I've never been offended by Mark. But Mark, you should know better, especially if you have been asked not to before. Fish4U has always been my favorite fish store. |
Posted By: Corey Price
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 10:34pm
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Well that isn't good news, Mark. Stay thick-skinned, my friend. I was once the subject of a character assassination by some unfriendly LFS owners. I thought it was funny then and still get a kick out of it. I've also been good friends with many LFS owners over the years and they continue to get my business. They all will remain anonymous. I'm actually saddened to see so many of you gang up on Mark, and this is not the first time. I see no fault in Mark for expressing his dismay and apologetic attitude here. To all who seem to be offended by Mark: I've been in this hobby a long time, but not close to as long as Mark. He's been through it all. I have never been offended by him. I stand by him. He was the first person I met when I walked through the door at the Rose Garden all those years ago, and he greeted me with a smile and a welcome. I can't say I've ever been wronged by him. Please, please give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, I'm really saddened to see this. Corey |
Posted By: kevin.st
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 9:25am
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I am also saddened to see people gang up on Mark. I have met Mark on a few occasions and found him to be friendly and always willing to impart his knowledge. I know his tone here is interesting, but I personally have nothing bad to say about him. I also like fish 4 u and will continue to shop there when I can. This is just unfortunate for the hobby. I hope we can be a little more civil to each other and accommodate differences in personality.
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Posted By: Seth
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 10:04am
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How is it a bad thing that someone out there has the experience to teach us to do things cheaper and better? The way I see it his insight has saved me a lot of money in this hobby. That money was then put towards livestock from Lfs. He does have very strong opinions but many times he is not wrong. Granted I don't take all of his advice because sometimes it takes to much effort just to save a few bucks.if I bought everything from a lfs I wouldn't have nearly as much as I do. His advice no matter how strong it's pushed saves me money for what I want my tank to be and run correctly. I enjoy my tank more when I don't look at a $200 reactor or supplement order. I would rather look at a $30 reactor that works the same. $20 supplements that work the same and $150 in new fish and coral. Honestly the money I save from taking some of his advice makes it all easier. Do we bash on people because they sell frags cheaper than stores? Bash on them for selling used equipment way cheaper than stores? No we don't so why would you bash on mark for doing the same? ------------- 75gal sps dominated reef. Bigger and better coming soon |
Posted By: love2skiutah
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 10:49am
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I don't think ANYONE in this group cares about someone posting about saving money and doing things different. It's not that, it's the fact that Mark sometimes comes off confrontational in a way that it's "his way or the highway" and sometimes people get tired of it. And whether he likes it or not, that's how he sometimes comes off. I see people snap at him from time to time, (even me sometimes ) but he's just trying to help. He has a good heart, he wants people to succeed and he doesn't do it on purpose. I disagree with him on certain ways he does things, but that's okay. In a hobby where it always seems like it's money money money, it's good to see someone pinching pennies like Mark.
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Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 11:21am
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I have been carefully following this thread, I will have some comments and then we can continue this discussion. I think this is a great open discussion. I just want you to know the WMAS Presidency is not ignoring this. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 12:09pm
Thanks for all comments, both by way of constructive criticism and by way of support. |
Posted By: John550
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 12:21pm
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I am new to the hobby and I thought I would chime in on this. I purchased a home that one of the conditions of the sale was it came with a marine tank because the owners were moving out of state, I had no prior knowledge of the hobby, other than I thought it was something I would enjoy. They suggested I reach out to Mark because he had helped them in the past, Mark has been to my home more than a dozen times helping me learn the hobby, get through a crash, and various other reasons when I needed help, and we are currently in the process of setting up my second new tank since coming into the hobby. He has on occasion been compensated for his help, but has always been very fair with me. His knowledge is vast, and while sometimes he more direct or unconventional in his delivery than some people may appreciate, I personally am not offended because the bottom line is he is always just trying to help anyway he can. He is a great asset to this site and to the hobby overall. John Ward |
Posted By: Hogie
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 2:31pm
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This has morphed into a Mark discussion, so what the heck, I'll chime in. This is Eddy speaking as an individual and not as a presidency member. The comments below do not reflect the views or thoughts or ideas or have anything to do with the presidency!! First off, Mark, your response after the negative comments started rolling in where you say, "I appreciate all comments and am taking them seriously" was very big of you. You could have very easily (and justifiably) gone defensive or gone offensive, but you didn't. And, the fact that you didn't just blow it off and took (are taking) it serious and listened (are listening) to the comments is very admirable and commendable. Ashamedly, I don't know if I would have the character to respond the same. I haven't know Mark as long as a lot of the people on here (I think it's been 8 years now) and there are a couple of things I've noticed. 1. There is a difference between how Mark comes across online and in person. I bet if you were able go through all the people who have butted heads with Mark, 90% of them happened online and not in person. When you get to know Mark in person and talk to him, you realize, like love2skiutah said, Mark really does have a good heart and is genuinely trying to help. However, online, I don't know why but that genuine caring and sincere desire to help gets lost. Statements like, "I've been at this for a very long time, intensely via the WMAS, via this forum and via all the experts whose brains I've picked over the years. I may have seen more incidents like this than most hobbyists or professionals" and "Take it from one who has more experience than he knows what to do with" comes across as egotistic, rude, and brash. The constant references to go buy items from Mark seem self benefiting rather then helpful. So, if a person doesn't know Mark or mainly deals with him online, the potential for offense is higher then if, like John said, someone is working or talking face to face with Mark. 2. Mark helps a lot of people. Regardless of Mark's methods, I don't know of anyone who is more willing to help out someone in need then Mark. If someone has a problem, Mark is the first one to volunteer to go over and help. How many of us are willing to drop everything we're doing in an instant to go over to help? For example Mark's post yesterday, "I can have some on your doorstep in 10 minutes." I would venture that Mark does more to newcomers then anyone else in the club. It's because he really does care. 3. People have left the club because of Mark. People leave the club because of conflicts with other people, not just Mark. With that said, I personally have had a half dozen people or so tell me they don't want to be in the club anymore because of confrontations or comments from Mark. All of them except for 1 were on the forum. I'm sure if Mark realized that those people were being pushed away, he wouldn't do it. My opinion (and this is just my opinion) is that Mark likes the debate and like to have the argument. It's fun and he like the banter. But not all people (like these ones that left) like that. They don't like conflict. A couple of those who left weren't even in discussions with Mark, but they saw/read how he answered other people's posts and so they stopped because they didn't want him to answer their post like that and they didn't want to read his posts on others. So, does that mean Mark should stop posting? Of course not! Could he use a little more tack in what he says absolutely! (we all could for that matter!) 4. Tact These items are good practice for everyone (including me!) and not meant to single out Mark. In reefing, there are lots of ways to do something. It's respectful to acknowledge and not belittle other ways of doing something. Example: Someone asks, "I'm setting up a new tank 90 gallon mixed reef tank. Do I need a skimmer?" Rather than stating, Yes or not, it's respectful to acknowledge both sides. So a response could be, "People have successful mixed reef tanks with and without a skimmer. I prefer X because..." Then if and when someone lists a contrary preference, there's no need to start a banter or argument about if they need a skimmer or not in that thread. (if you want to have a debate about it, feel free to create your own thread! I'm as guilty as anyone in doing that not starting a thread and just debating in their thread.) It's polite to use conditional words rather than absolutes. Example of absolute words, "Macro algae will solve nuisance algae problems in a reef tank. Macro algae removes..." Example of conditional words, "There are lots of ways to deal with nuisance algae in a reef tank, I like using macro algae. For me, I've found it removes..." See how the second response recognizes peoples other methods and keeps the response focused the the speaker's experiences rather then implying that the speaker's way is superior to other ways? The root of both responses is how macro algae can help, but the wording to get there is different. Save the absolutes for essay (like this post turned out...  )That's about it! Hopefully this was constructive to someone and can help us get past the bad mojo and back to enjoying our tanks! |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 3:27pm
| I agree with Eddy. Well said. |
Posted By: sleepingdeep
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 3:31pm
| i haven't seen this much action on the boards in a long time |
Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 5:09pm
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I've met Mark a few times and even purchased some macroalgae from him several years ago. Very nice guy to deal with in person and very knowledgeable. I do agree with the folks that Mark be a bit abrasive on the forums. Mark is the go to guy for some DIY builds and cheap alternatives.... BUT pitching your corals/LR in the parking lot of LFS is not the place to do it. |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 6:57am
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With Eddie and Shane. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: achillestang
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 9:27am
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The original post by Mark brings up many more questions than it answers. Such as; 1) When did Mark's conversation with this purchaser of LR begin? Was he stalking him during purchase, or did Mark just stumble upon him while he was loading his purchases in his car? 2) How many other times has Mark been observed by the LFS owner offering his "expertise" while he was in that particular store? Why couldn't Mark learn anything from his previous reprimands and continued do do exactly what the LFS owner asked him not to do? 3) Why would Mark surmise that his reprimand, and subsequent banning, assume it has anything to do with any perceived "pinch" that resulted in other recent LFS closings? I could go on and on. I can easily see how any LFS owner would get upset while observing someone handing our business cards - it can easily be perceived that Mark was trying to drum up business for himself while under-cutting the LFS. Just my random ponderings.
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Posted By: Corey Price
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 8:38pm
Instead of pondering, why don't you ask Mark? I bet you'd get your answer without pondering. Mark recognizes his own shortcomings. |
achillestang wrote:Posted By: sabeypets
Date Posted: February 24 2017 at 3:19am
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There is a time and a place..... selling a simmilar product/giving advice in someone elses backyard, after being ask not to CROSSED the line. I can understand that. A LFS builds a trust/relationship with the customer. The LFS spends time with the customer on how to set up a tank/equipment needed. The LFS sells the customer live rock. Some "GUY" out in the parking lot (uninvited) is trying to upsale his Livelyer (< possibly not a word) Rock/Advise (most likley not the same advise as the LFS has given, as opinions/methods vary), the customer has no trust with the uninvited "guy". Customer is irritated, complaines to LFS about the "guy". LFS is now irritated with the "guy". Has nothing to do with LFS feeling a "pinch" (that is the "guys" own Big ego with a coment like that) May be a little To aggressive... Like Eddy said all in the wording. Have you heard about the local club? Would you like to know more? Short introduction about the club. If they show up at a mtg or on the forum, now you are in your own back yard and this is your invation. Customer is not thing Mark is tacky, and trust/relationship can now beigin, learns from everyone, has a long lasting enjoyable hobby, and everyone lives happily ever after...... Anyway, I have a stack of WMAS cards on the counter, Feel welcome to hand some out when you come and visit us.  ------------- Shaun American Fork "Would you leave a dead cat in your kitchen till tommorow?" Builderofdreams |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: February 26 2017 at 12:20pm
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I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. I've known Mark for almost 11 years now. He saved my very first tank after a crash. He drove from Bountiful to Suncrest with chaeto, water and sand. Helped me setup a hang on the back refugium and helped me get everything back on track. I've forever remembered that gesture. As for the situation, I'm not surprised by the actions of either party here. |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: February 26 2017 at 12:46pm
We have cards we give out at each meeting and I know some Presidency have them in their wallets to hand out when you meet someone new when out and about and you want them to check out the club website. If the LFS thought they were being undercut for a sale I can see where they would be upset by that. As a club we want to educate members, have a place for members to go (at events and on website and social media) to talk salt water, help each other out and yes even sell that fish that's too big for your tank or if you are selling equipment. We aren't here to undermine stores and take business away. This has been a great thread, lots of constructive thoughts. Thanks everyone for participating. I think Shaun said it best on how to approach someone new about the club, especially if you are in a LFS. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 26 2017 at 6:55pm
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All great comments above. FYI, the dialogue Shaun wrote above is exactly how I have always done it since we started the WMAS in 1995 and that's how I approached this person that night. Out of respect for Kris, and his previous request, I didn't say anything in the store. I happened to be leaving at the same time as the customer. I thought that approaching the customer outside would be adequately respectful to Kris and his store.
It was dark and we were actually on the other side of the parking lot near the customers vehicle. I guess Kris owns the entire parking lot so he had every right. I really have no animosity toward him. He has a business to run. I will kinda miss going in to Fish-4-U and the good healthy animals I have bought from them over the many years. Thankfully, Rusty's Reefs has come on the scene. I just picked up two Yellow Tangs from Rusty on Friday. He is also a great source for all kinds of snails and hermits. Of all the LFS, Kris has always been the clubs strongest supporter. I believe that he recognized how the WMAS had made the the hobby bigger in SLC. We often brought guest speakers/experts to Fish-4-U to meet Kris and see his good store. Many years ago, he allowed us to make brief introductions to the WMAS in his store. No other LFS has ever allowed that. Please remember, as I said in the OP, Kris objects to me, not to the WMAS. This discussion has been a good lesson for me. I hope it was informative for everyone. Aloha, Mark
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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