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Refugium help

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Scott B View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 04 2013 at 12:16pm
I am in the process of setting up a 150g tank with 50 g sump/refugium. The question I have is, what do i put in the fuge (middle) section? What substrate(if any), live rock, cheato, etc... what does everyone else do?
28g jbj led nano, 150 g mixed reef, skimz skimmer, AI blue sol's, Reef Angel controller, wp40's, aquamedic reef doser
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 12:44pm
Sand. Rock. Three kinds of macro algae are in mine.
150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote love2skiutah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 12:46pm
I had no sand, 2 small pieces of live rock and 2 kinds of macro algae in mine. I am going to try using Miracle Mud in the next build though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 12:54pm
I would put coarse sand/rubble in as the substrate, about 1"-1.5" deep. The sand will help maintain a larger pod population because it provides spaces for them to create tunnels and breed. I would also get a couple small pieces of rock (baseball-softball size) to go in there as well. For macros, I like to have as much variety as possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 1:06pm
I have no sand and lots of pieces of live rock rubble and only cheato.  The pods are thriving in there.  Plus I can use the live rock rubble pieces to attach frags to, and when I do that I just add more dry pieces of live rock rubble to the sump.  I use cheato because there is virtually no risk that it will go assexual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 1:39pm
Ok, so no fine sand for sure... i will start out with rock rubble and chaeto. I have a basic clip on light with a led 5k light (from lowes), will that work fine, and do i light that 24/7 or just at nighttime?
28g jbj led nano, 150 g mixed reef, skimz skimmer, AI blue sol's, Reef Angel controller, wp40's, aquamedic reef doser
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacknugget Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 2:17pm
I run lights 24/7 on the fuge. I have about an inch of coarse crushed coral and then cheato and caulerpa. My first chamber is packed with rubble and a skimmer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 2:56pm
I don't really know of any disadvantages to running the light 24/7 as long as you don't put it too close to the water and cook the algae. How many watts is the led? 5000K should be fine but I would for for plenty of power if you're using an led. Another option is to use a clip on fluorescent fixture and use a daylight bulb from lowes. I do this on my fuge for my zoa tank (only fuge I have at the moment) with a 60W equivalent daylight fluorescent (~4200K) and I have to thin the algae every week or two and that's with practically no bioload.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 3:26pm
Seems there are many ways to set up a refugium. I prefer a couple inches of sand and macro with no rubble or live rock. I don't mind rubble or rock short term but I don't keep it there long term to avoid trapping detritus.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 4:02pm
Ann, im not home now but i think the led light bulb is only 9.5 watts. I believe i saw that someone else here on the forums were using it also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 4:03pm
Mike, do you use a fine sand or course sand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Scott B Scott B wrote:

Ok, so no fine sand for sure... i will start out with rock rubble and chaeto. I have a basic clip on light with a led 5k light (from lowes), will that work fine, and do i light that 24/7 or just at nighttime?
The reason I run my fuge lights opposite of my tank lights is I have been told that helps keep the pH levels stable.  I do not know if running the fuge lights all the time has the same effect.  Also, you do not need to keep lights on cheato 24 hrs a day, but there is some macro algae that people recommend you keep the lights on it all the time as a preventative measure to keep it from going assexual. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by Scott B Scott B wrote:

Mike, do you use a fine sand or course sand?
 
I use CaribSea Special Grade Reef Sand so not too fine.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 5:42pm
Thanks all for your responses, it helped alot
28g jbj led nano, 150 g mixed reef, skimz skimmer, AI blue sol's, Reef Angel controller, wp40's, aquamedic reef doser
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Scott B Scott B wrote:

Ok, so no fine sand for sure... i will start out with rock rubble and chaeto. I have a basic clip on light with a led 5k light (from lowes), will that work fine, and do i light that 24/7 or just at nighttime?
Aloha,

Here is what I do to take advantage of every bit of the biology and chemistry technology of which I'm aware:

1. 1/2 -2 inches of Oolitic sand on the bottom - excellent for buffering and bacteria growth. (Oolitic sand has more surface area per volume, so it grows more bacteria than larger particle sand. This is especially effective for the final step of changing Nitrate into Nitrogen gas and H2O. The more area of our system we can use for that the healthier things will be.)
2. On top of the Oolitic, 1/2 - 1" of larger particle sand or crushed coral sand and a small space for rubble. (The advantages were already mentioned.)
3. The entire remaining water area is for Cheatomorpha and as many other kinds of Macroalgae as can grow there. I place the Chaeto downstream from the other Macro otherwise it will eat all the nutrients leaving little for the other Macros.
4. A few Snails and maybe a Hermit or two. (These keep nuisance algae somewhat controlled in the Refugium, but any small controlled amount growing there is not really a problem. That helps ensure it won't grow in the display so long as there are ample Snails in the display.)

Plants/algae don't like continuous lighting anymore than we do. They need a time to sleep. I use 24/7 lighting only when needed to eat up extra pollution like when something dies. This helps keep Cyano and other nuisance algae from starting up.

I don't use much LR permanently in the Refugium because the space is better used for Macroalgae.

Have fun,
Mark Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - October 04 2013 at 10:26pm
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Molli Molli wrote:

The reason I run my fuge lights opposite of my tank lights is I have been told that helps keep the pH levels stable.  I do not know if running the fuge lights all the time has the same effect.  Also, you do not need to keep lights on cheato 24 hrs a day, but there is some macro algae that people recommend you keep the lights on it all the time as a preventative measure to keep it from going assexual. 
Molli is correct. 24/7 lighting does indeed help keep nighttime pH up, the same as RDP lighting.
The other algae Molli is speaking of is Caulerpa, of which there are many varieties, Feather, blade, grape, etc. In my experience, 24/7 lighting will not keep Caulerpa from going "sexual" or in other words, from dissolving away in a day. The reason Caulerpa dissolves away is because it has run out of nutrients/food, so it decides to form spores/zygotes and float away to another location in the ocean. There are two reasons it runs out of food in our tanks:
1 - too many nutrients are being removed by other means, like skimmers, Phosphate remover, etc.; and
2 - the Refugium Macroalgae is not being harvested as often as needed. If algae is not harvested it outgrows itself in competition for food. Harvesting should be done as soon as the algae begins to fill the available space. harvest as much as can grow back in a month, usually 1/3-1/2 of the total volume. Also as mentioned above, Caulerpa is not as efficient at eating pollution as Chaetomorpha so Caulerpa should be placed upstream of Chaeto.

The last article in this newsletter is about the benefits I gained when I set up an RDP Refugium, including what it did to increase pH at night:
http://utahreefs.com/SeaStar/wmasSeaStar02Feb.pdf

Aloha,
Mark Hug
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 10:34pm
Thx mark.. good info
28g jbj led nano, 150 g mixed reef, skimz skimmer, AI blue sol's, Reef Angel controller, wp40's, aquamedic reef doser
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