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Beyond Phyto?

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Suzy View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 06 2006 at 6:58pm
OK, so I've been growing phyto for a few years now...

After doing a bit o' research, I decided I might try something different, so
I started growing diatoms...

Then, it actually turns out that most corals are not herbivores, they prefer
zooplanton so i started culturing copepods, the most nutritious food per
pound, on the planet!

So, what is next? What cool thing can I culture in my basement? What
other element is missing in my desert reef?

Hmmm....


I have not grown dinoflagelates!!!! The ultimate in cool stuff! The cell that
zooanthelia is made of!!!! When I have a coral bleach, how can it ever
replace the necessary algae it needs if I have not supplied it in it's
environment? How can I help it from succumbing to this terrible bleaching
episode?

My newest latest wild-hair quest is to grow dinoflagulates!

First step: learn how to spell it!


So, I have been getting quite a few pms about fansy pansy cultures. Here
is a site about few of the cultures some of us are growing:

   w3732e00.htm#Contents">Microalgae


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Suzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 7:06pm
Ok, for those that prefer research in English, cutnpaste this:

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e00.htm#Contents
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 7:20pm
On a roll...

I found the one name:Symbiodinium microadriaticum

So, there are a few more...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dnellans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 7:51pm
Suzy, what makes you say that it turns out they aren't herbivores?  There are several articles on the net that claim soft corals have a 80% phyto / 20% zoo diet and LPS and SPS have 20% phyto and 80% zoo diet...

and of course, most corals will survive even without feeding utilizing photosynthesis

while we can't feed it to our tanks (or can we??) i claim soyflower is pound for pound more nutrious than copepods even when you "gut load" them with something else (which is where a lot of that nutrition comes from).  in fact the link above shows that soyflower is a commonly used food for culturing zooplankton.   here is a link with some dry weight percentages on soybeans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 8:01pm
Yea, but what the burning issue is ...will it lead to an increase in breast cancer among zooplankton or not? 
Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 8:15pm
OK, you guys can try to defer my quest but!!! I think I found a source!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dnellans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 9:27pm
no one is trying to discourage you silly rabbit!  I would like to get to the bottom of the "what do corals eat though"  because my massive overfeeding on phyto certainly is going somewhere...  all this work for naught?  gasp 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 12:17am
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:17am

You know we are in the perfect place to rib you about these efforts while being still interested.  We'll be the first to be feeding this awesome coral food and saying we were watching the invention as it progressed. 

Actually, I'd really like to get by there and see your now famous set-up and look more closely at these efforts. 

Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:31am
OK, so there are some that think that phyto is for feeding zooplankton,
right? You can feed the resident zooplankton in your tank (if there is any
that has not already been snicked) or you can feed it in a culture vessel.

I do feed my tank with a strong phytoplankton and a quick growing
diatom, and I have had a recent explosion of mysis shrimp. But, I think
even though I am adding a gallon or so daily, I can grow more
zooplankton in a seperate culture vessel that does not contain predators.
With my systems needs, I think it is best for me.

Some corals, and esp sponges, do consume phyto directly but some
corals (animals) do not. We all know -and have seen with our own eyes-
SPS tanks that grow without any additional feeding, they live off their
symbiotic zooanthellae, But, there is research that concludes that better
growth -esp relating to gonad formation- requires heterotrophic
consumption.

Phyto is cool (depending on the species), but my tanks- with a diverse
population of sps and octocorals- need both meat and veggies, IMO.

So, back to the original topic: Where do I find Dinoflagellates?

(Off topic: I don't gut load my copepods. They make their own PUFAs
from fish poo)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 3:12pm
You should get onto marinedepot.com/forums and just ask Ron Shimek in his forum where to get them and how to grow them.  Well, maybe you already know how to grow them, but he knows all about that stuff.  I don't know if you've been to this site or not, but its pretty new and alot smaller than RC too, which I think is where he used to be, I might be mistaked though.

Edited by ryanj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 8:33am

 Thanks Ryan for the PM clearing things up.



Edited by Angel
Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 1:09pm

Angel, how did I miss your last post? We must have been simultaneously posting!

 I don't think this is something we will feed to our corals. I think it might be something we soak them in when they have bleached? I don't know if we want a culture to compete with the zooanthellae...

 Ryan, I will try Ron but this might be something I have to find some research guy in Florida to get....rob a university sorta thing....

 Man, I just wish I knew someone who knows someone who is a researcher type in Florida.....

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 1:16pm

And, Connie, you are always welcome to see our tanks!

 

Plus, I think I have a sponge growing that is THE cure for breast CA in zoop!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 2:24pm
Sounds like you're on a pretty big quest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstruhs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 12:04am

Originally posted by ryanj ryanj wrote:

Sounds like you're on a pretty big quest.

That's pretty much how Suzy does it, on a pretty good sized scale!  Isn't she awesome!

You cannot be a leader of a revolution without thinking big and taking chances!  Go Suzy!

I bet your past friends at TLP would know someone who knows someone who is a researcher.  Maybe someone at a lab could put you in touch with the right person?  Or, maybe Adam B.?

Rodney, Sandra, Jeffery, and Laura Struhs
South Jordan, Utah 98th South & 40th West.
(801) 282-2744

75 gallon reef
55 gallon reef
55 gallon FOWLR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 7:47am
Thanks, Rodney!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Kripfgans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 7:56am
Suzy it looks like your are on your way to becomming the goddess of dinoflagulates! I think Adam Haycock should jump in on this post.  I love this club 
WMAS is da place!
Save the Banggai's!
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