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Shane H 
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 Topic: Help Improve My Drain
Posted: January 17 2010 at 9:24pm |
I need some suggestions on improving the drain on my segmented frog tank.
I added a small vent hole to the elbow to overcome the air lock (the discharge is below the water line in the sump). The drain flows well, the air vent is relatively quiet and everything is OK. But just OK.
The vent is not large enough to consistently overcome the air lock when the flow is interrupted (like in the event of a power outage). When I turn the pump off and re-start, the tank can overflow before the drain catches up. The strainer inside the overflow box is exposed - meaning it is not submerged when the flow is stopped. When the return is running, the strainer is submerged. I can control the height of the water in the overflow with the ball valve.
So - do I need to create a larger vent? Should I extend the breather further into the plumbing? I can easily do this with rigid airline tubing. Or should I re-do the whole thing?
Suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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beller
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Posted: January 17 2010 at 9:59pm |
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sounds like the water coming into the tank needs to be controlled not the water returning into the sump.
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I love fish I want them all.
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fishoutawater
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Posted: January 17 2010 at 10:41pm |
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What if you put a true wye fitting on the back of your bulkhead? You install it so that it's at a 45deg angle. You put your main line on the lower leg of the wye with the ball valve, run another line off of the other(higher)drain. Then when you have a stop/start of pump, until flow regulates in your main drain line, the excess can run through the backup.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:39am |
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I'm not clear on this. Can you post a pic of the elbow with the hole in it. I'd like to see the inside of the overflow box, please.
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:22am |
Mark,
The elbow you see directly above the ball valve now has a hole with an airline control valve and a short amount of airline. The inside of the overflow box has a 1 inch hole with a strainer.
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:28am |
After hunting around some, I think I am going to drill a much larger vent hole and see what happens. If you look at the glass-holes style overflows, they use a large vent (they call it a flush tube) and it seems the noise can be controlled by the position of this flush tube relative to the drain.
Although noise is not really an issue, I have to completely avoid the air lock scenario.
Any other suggestions?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:55pm |
Okay so what you have done by adding the vent in the Elbow is to make that into a Durso style drain. Here is my first thought. One of the things that makes a Durso quieter is to have a kind of muffler area above the water that's draining down the pipe. (It appears to be 1" diameter bulkhead and piping right?) I would replace the elbow with a 1" PVC Tee. Take the adjustable airline currently attached to the Elbow and attach it into a PVC Plug slipped into the top section of the Tee.
I'm wondering if this may allow you to fullly open the ball valve and still have a quiet drain. I'm also thinking that in the overflow box there is a horizontal open hole where the strainer slips or screws into the bulkhead, right. Placing an elbow (with piece of pipe) there that extends down to 1/4-1/2" from the bottom of the box may be worth considering. This may help with flow and/or noise and also stop large snails from slipping in and clogging the drain pipe.
When working in tight spaces, realize that PVC fittings can be cut so they don't take up so much room. As long as there is 1/4" of slip joint for them to join together they will be fine in low pressure applications whether glued or simply pushed together.
Hope this helps. 
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 18 2010 at 12:59pm
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 1:21pm |
I was actually considering adding an elbow inside the overflow, but I don't think this is necessary. The strainer (screwed into the bulkhead) is completely submerged and silent.
Your explanation using a tee, rather than an elbow was my first plan (but I thought I could get away without it)! I wonder if they sell sanitary tees in 1' threaded? That would be almost ideal.
Hmmm ... something to think about.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 2:13pm |
All PVC is sanitary, at least it's okay for human use and I've never seen any problems, even with the glue.
Yes they make the slip or threaded ends in every combination and then there are ST bushings...
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jfinch
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 2:30pm |
Mark, sanitary tee is a type of tee, not a discription:
And I've never seen a 1" sanitary tee. 1 1/4" is the smallest I've seen, but I've never really looked for a 1"...
Edited by jfinch - January 18 2010 at 2:33pm
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 2:31pm |
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Sorry - "sanitary" tee or sani-tee is a specific configuration. The smallest they sell is 1.5". The guy at Lowes looked at me like I was nuts when I asked for a 1" threaded!
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 3:15pm |
 Thanks guys.
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 3:23pm |
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I didn't read the above posts, but I would put a T where your elbow is in the back. If is too loud then add a cap and drill holes until it quiets down.
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 4:34pm |
I picked up a tee today. We'll see what happens.
Again - noise isn't really much of an issue. I need to vent to avoid the air lock.
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 4:37pm |
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If I decide to redo the entire drain, I will use a sani-tee and probably some different hose. I think the corrogated hose adds noise and bubbles that could be mitigated with something different.
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 8:58pm |
OK.
I drilled a 3/8" hole in the elbow and inserted a 6 inch length of poly tube. ($0.16 per foot) With a couple minutes of tweaking I found the "sweet spot"! The drain is very quiet and there is no air lock! I tried a dozen times (unplugging the return, allowing the water to syphon, powering the return back on) and never had any problems!
Next time - a sani-tee with a plug for sure. But this looks fairly good and should work forever.
Next - sand and rock!
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Shane H
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 9:00pm |
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I almost forgot. I also made a bubble trap out of a 4 in diameter, double wall drain pipe I had sitting around. I cut a hole in the side for the drain and "legs" at the bottom. The water drains into this pipe and must exit at the bottom. Most of the bubbles remain trapped within the pipe. We'll see if this works out or not. Fortunately, the sump is smoked acrylic, so you can't really see the bubble trap.
Edited by Shane H - January 18 2010 at 9:02pm
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:34pm |
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I'm really looking forward to seeing your tank stock w/ 3 frogs. It will be awesome.
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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