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jordanh 
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 Topic: now what?
Posted: June 14 2005 at 7:32pm |
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So, I've got a 10g tank with a few sps frags in it; I just got my test kits for Ca and Alk so I tested them today: 5.8dkH and 340ppm Ca. I'm not sure if I want to use lime or B-Ionic to raise my Alk/Ca levels. Should having such a small tank effect my decision? Right now I'm leaning toward B-Ionic because it sounds a little safer and sounds like a lot less hassle, also with a small tank 1 set of solution will last a lot longer. If I start dripping kalk how often should I test the water to begin with, and how soon should I notice a difference; also, same question for B-Ionic.
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j's55
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Posted: June 14 2005 at 8:06pm |
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Use B-ionic IMO because it gives you directions to dose by the gallon. and
that is what I do.
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Josh Zorn
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jfinch
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Posted: June 14 2005 at 10:36pm |
5.8dkH and 340ppm Ca.
If I recall correctly you've got a new tank... I'd check your salinity, I bet it's low.
not sure if I want to use lime or B-Ionic to raise my Alk/Ca levels.
Actually, you don't want to use either to raise alk/Ca levels. They both are balanced additives so if you add enough to increase your calcium levels to 420 ppm, you're alk will rise to 17 dKH! You should use a calcium only additive such as Kent's turbo calcium to increase your calcium to 400 ppm then use b-ionic to increase both alk and Ca to 9 dKH and calcium to 420 ppm, then use just enough bionic to maintain those levels. Bionic is much easier to use then kalkwasser, especially in a small tank.
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jordanh
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Posted: June 14 2005 at 11:32pm |
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jfinch: I checked my specific gravity with a refractometer and it isn't low at 1.025; aren't 5.8 and 340 both low numbers? How do you figure that the balanced additives will increase my alk too much? Also, how does B-Ionic work? Can I just add more of the Ca part to increase my Ca more?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 15 2005 at 8:59am |
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340 is not dangerously low, IMO. But a dKH of 5.8 is definitely low. I would use the Alkalinity part of the solution. I believe it's B-ionic's Part 1 and Kent's Part B. It's okay to let the Ca run at that level. Raise the Alkalinity and the DSB will compensate for the need for some Calcium. In my friends 10 gal we add Kent buffer in powder form mixed first with a glass of tap water. This small amount of tap water also gives some trace elements to the tank.
The dry powder can also be portioned for a 10 gal tank, but it's not that important to be so precise, just add a half teaspoon a day mixed in just enough tapwater to dissolve it. Do this and test the Alk each day watching it rise to the proper level which IMO is ~11 for the hard corals we all like to keep.
As you watch the Alk rise, the Ca may fall a little. Just add a little of the liquid Ca solution(Kent or B-ionic) or Turbo Calcium/Ca Chloride to give the tank the extra Ca it needs.
I have been working on a 650 gal. tank that was at 7 dKH and 420 Ca. We added more than a half cup of baking soda each day for a week and now the Alk is at 11. The tank had some major issues that seem to have abated. It is looking better and better.
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jordanh
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Posted: June 15 2005 at 12:37pm |
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Thanks for the info guys; I picked up some B-Ionic from Eric's and I'm going to start dosing that. Just to clarify, can I use just one part of the mix to raise Ca or Alk respectively?
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bugzme
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Posted: June 15 2005 at 12:47pm |
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no! Use a calcium additive or an aklalinity addative! B-ionic is made to maintain levels
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Jeff
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 15 2005 at 5:16pm |
 jordanh wrote:
Just to clarify, can I use just one part of the mix to raise Ca or Alk respectively? |
Actually Yes.
B-ionic is more expensive than Kent but they are essentially the same.
FYI the alkalinity part of the Kent product is the same stuff as their liquid buffer in the blue wrapper.
And also FYI, the powder buffer gives you more for your money. 
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Posted: June 15 2005 at 5:36pm |
Mark Peterson wrote:
I have been working on a 650 gal. tank that was at 7 dKH and 420 Ca. We added more than a half cup of baking soda each day for a week and now the Alk is at 11. |
Wow, that's a big tank! Is it in someone's house?
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jfinch
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Posted: June 15 2005 at 11:00pm |
I checked my specific gravity with a refractometer and it isn't low at 1.025; aren't 5.8 and 340 both low numbers?
I was just guessing. Many people mix their salt up to a SG of 1.023 and then find low alkalinity and calcium levels because of the low salinity. And I was assuming your tank was fairly new. Most new tanks do not need much supplementation, but it appears your does.
How do you figure that the balanced additives will increase my alk too much?
Any and all balanced additives will add 1 meq/l (or 2.8 dKH) of alkalinity for every 20 ppm of calcium added. So if you use a balanced additive to raise your calcium level from 340 to 420 (an addition of 420-340=80 ppm Ca) will increase your alk from 5.8 + 80/20 * 2.8 = 17 dKH! That's too high, imo, and will be very difficult to maintain. You should shoot for about 8-11 dKH.
Also, how does B-Ionic work?
That is a GREAT question that I'm sure many people don't know. In a nutshell ('cause I could go on for pages  ): B-ionic is essentially Instant Ocean (or pick your favorite salt mix) with really high calcium and alkalinity. So when all that additional calcium and alkalinity is consumed by your corals, the only thing left over is a small amount of salt mix. Kinda like doing a really small water change every day. Because of this, your salinity will slowly increase with time and you may need to adjust it after a while.
Can I just add more of the Ca part to increase my Ca more?
Yes, but it's a colossal waste of money, imo. It's way cheaper to buy some Kent's Turbo Calcium (or even cheaper if you can find some Peladow ice melt) to make adjustments to your calcium level. And use a buffer (or baking soda) to make adjustments to your alkalinity.
Use a calcium additive or an alkalinity additive! B-ionic is made to maintain levels
Right on! Jeff's got it.
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jordanh
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 12:28am |
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I'll pick up a calcium additive tomorrow. Can I adjust the Alk and Ca all at once? Or do I have to spread the change out over a few days? After I get the levels where I want them how do I figure out how much B-Ionic I need to dose?
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jfinch
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 10:25am |
Can I adjust the Alk and Ca all at once?
You can adjust calcium all at once... it has no bearing on pH. It's completely safe to adjust your alkalinity by 0.5 meq/l (1.4 dKH) each day. You can go as high as 1 meq/l each day if you keep a close eye on your pH while you're doing it.
After I get the levels where I want them how do I figure out how much B-Ionic I need to dose?
If you can tell me how fast your alkalinity is falling each day I can tell you how much b-ionic to add  . Otherwise it's just trial and error. Follow the suggested starting point from the label, then adjust up or down depending on what your alkalinity does.
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jordanh
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 1:03pm |
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jfinch; looks like your predictions were pretty close, I dosed 2 ml of each solution B-Ionic last night and my new reading this morning were 7.7dkh 350ppm. I'm not exactly sure how to read the Salifert Ca test: it changes from pink to purple then to blue; should I take the measurement when it first changes to the purpleish color? From purple to dark blue is only 3 like drops.
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jfinch
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 1:38pm |
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You need to titrate all the way to the blue color.
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jordanh
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 2:24pm |
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Hrm, it is a gradual change from purple to blue; how do I know when to stop?
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jordanh
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 5:25pm |
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Ah, thanks.
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jfinch
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 5:27pm |
Drop until it turns purple. Read the syringe. Drop another drop, read syringe. Do this until the color doesn't change anymore. The correct reading is the reading from just before it didn't change. It should only take about 2-3 drops to go from reddish to blue (i.e. you should only be purple for about 2-3 drops).
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Corey Price
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 6:03pm |
 Nightmares of chemistry labs in college are coming back!!! I hated titrations! Now I know why I haven't tested my water quality yet... 
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jordanh
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 6:19pm |
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Hrm, how did my reply to your last post, jfinch, come before the post itself? *twilight zone music starts playing*
Edited by jordanh
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bugzme
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Posted: June 16 2005 at 6:24pm |
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o.k.! what are titrations?
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Jeff
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I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!
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