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Bleaching ACRO?

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    Posted: September 16 2011 at 6:25pm
I have had my tank up since February and things have been great except for a little cyno problem on the sand bed.....mostly under control now......my tank is 65g with a 55g sump and 29g fuge.....

Alk, Calc, Ph, N and salinity are all right where they need to be.

I have Green Slimer and a (Purple with Blue tip) Acro that recently have had growth stop and many small branches starting to bleach on the purple and the green looks like it is slowly dying , it is turning dark and loosing its bright green look?

The only thing that has changed is an RBTA has split from 1 to now 4 so unless it is letting off some sort of warfare I am STUMPED??? it is not touching any of the coral so I know it is not stinging it...

Any suggestions?

Leather, Softies, Some of the acro, Candycanes, and many other corals all look great with no signs of stress!Confused


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chk4tix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2011 at 8:14pm
From my experience, if your bubbetip split that many times, I would say you do have a water chemistry. How old are your tests and what are you using to check the salinity? I bet something is off and your tests or probes need checked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snowsrfr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2011 at 9:41pm
What are the exact parameters? Alk, Ca, Mag, pH, etc.

Where is the placement of the acros in the tank? High, med, low? What kind of flow do you have in the tank.

Darkening of SPS means low light, or excess nutrients in water.

What's your lighting and what's your feeding regimen?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2011 at 11:39am
May we see a pic of the tank please?
Have you double checked the Alkalinity and Calcium with another test kit or LFS? It would be more helpful to see the actual number results of the testing than to just say everything is right where it needs to be. Evidently, everything is not where it needs to be, otherwise you wouldn't be coming here with this coral problem.

You said that the only change has been the splitting of the anemone, but yet you also mentioned that some cyano is under control now. What did you do to get the cyano under control?
It sounds to me like there have been changes made, things added, possibly chemicals and supplements added which may have something to do with the problem.

Does this make sense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2011 at 1:26pm
Sorry it took so long to get back on here!!!

I think I figured out what is wrong....I installed a float valve for my ATO well I went with a cheap Evaporated Cooler one from HD and did not think about out....had it in for about 3 months now and realized the BRASS bar was starting to turn green!!!!  I did not think about Brass having copper in it.

So as the ATO water slowly trickled down the brass bar it must have picked up some of the copper elements and put in the water!!!!

I did a water change of 35 gallons last night and going to do another 35 tonight and the next 2 night to try and get the water replaced!  My tank total Volume is 125 Gallons.

I will post pick of the coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2011 at 1:30pm
l

Edited by Jerrick - October 08 2011 at 5:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2011 at 1:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2011 at 5:44pm
Yes it is a good idea to replace that float valve, but I have seen people use those for years and have no problems.

I am not convinced that is the problem, not the whole problem anyway. Did you test the water for copper before going to the effort of doing water changes?

Did you know there are products that take the Cu out of the water so you hardly need to lift a finger?
 
Those pics are really difficult to see. Can you email me an original full tank pic so I can get a better look?

I'm sure you are doing the best you know how, but I would still would like to know the actual Alk and Ca numbers and to know if you double checked the results with someone else.

I don't suppose any of the clone anemones has been sitting on those coral have they?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2011 at 10:55am
Sorry pics are bad I used my cell phone and they shrunk when I posted them???  What is your e-mail I will send it over.....I didn't think about testing for copper didn't realize you could do that....
I will test my water again tonight and get parameters.....I think my ALk was a little low at 6 before water change and my cal was at 500 maybe a bit high???

So far have changed 65 gallons of the 125 total volume I will test my levels tonight and post tomorrow!

THANKS for ALL YOUR HELP!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2011 at 3:28pm
Alk is as low as 6 dKH. Shocked I believe there is the problem.

Alk should stay around 10 dKH and as level as possible.

Here is an example of how serious this is. It's almost as serious as letting pH fall from 8 to 7 You might think it's only a single digit number, but take note of this: A pH of 7.3 rather than 8.3, where it should be, is actually 100 times more ACID! Shocked

For alkalinity the gradation is not as extreme, but in a reef tank, where the Alkalinity should be around 10 dKH, and it is falling to 6, pH will also be dropping too low, especially at night. I have seen that pH follows Alkalinity. That is what is referred to as the buffering ability of Alkalinity.

Also, at night pH naturally falls because algae stops photosynthesizing, using O2 and giving off CO2. This means that every night the pH in this tank is falling dangerously low. Low enough that when combined with the low Alkalinity, coral will die, fish will be stressed and disease will start. I figure that the coral will starving for Alkalinity and being burned with acid. Ouch


Edited by Mark Peterson - September 24 2011 at 4:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2011 at 3:32pm
The tank is practically all stony coral, and a lot of it too.
You are adding Alk and Ca currently, right?
I would suggest installing a Ca Reactor to save the trouble of almost daily Alk and Ca additions. Smile


Edited by Mark Peterson - September 23 2011 at 3:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2011 at 4:05pm
Okay things are looking better......ALK is back up to 10!!!

Mark what CA Reactor could you recommend?

I am currently dosing Alk and Ca but it must have not been keeping up with the alk...my CA I have not dosed  now for almost 2 weeks and it is still at 500??? Shouldn't it have started declining by now???  
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Any Ca Reactor will do. I don't have a favorite.

If the Alkalinity has been below 8 and Alk dosing was not sufficient for a while, the Calcium was just building up because without a minimum level of Alk, coral cannot use Ca. Water changes with Oceanic or another high Ca salt mix replace Ca but not Alk. Because of many different variables in tank conditions and setup, the minimum level of Alkalinity for healthy Ca utilization is different for every tank. Alk of 9-10 has always seemed to be a good general target.

Coral need Alk and Ca just like food. Any coral can get really sensitive to this lack of food and start to decline. The difficulty with low Alk is that it can take weeks or months for the coral to start showing signs and then, even though the parameters are brought back into line, it can take weeks for the coral to recover and start growing again. Ca usage will show a delay. Patience is a virtue.

All of this may explain why I am always stressing that knowing the Alk and Ca of our tanks is as important as Temp and Salinity, even more important than testing N compounds. For example, a rise in Nitrates is easily and quickly seen visually in declining coral condition, polyps not extending, coral not expanding, and in extreme situations flesh receding, etc.
One the other hand, Alk and Ca deprivation is slow to show in coral so we must be vigilant in testing and adjusting with Alk and Ca supplements or tuning in the Ca Reactor.


Edited by Mark Peterson - October 07 2011 at 10:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snowsrfr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2011 at 12:31am
Check with Elite-Aquatics here on the board. Tyler built my Ca reactor for my 50 cube for much cheaper than I could have bought one at a LFS or online, and I believe his products are much higher quality. Then you'll just need to order a regulator and CO2. Tyler may even be able to help you with that too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2011 at 5:39pm
THANKS,  SO after increasing my ALK I have been getting a TON of BUBBLES......no water outlets are splashing into the tanks I have a bubble trap in sump filter sock....both display and frag tank, Connected system different pump and piping to both fed from the sump, ANY SUGGESTION  This is a picture of the over flow box COVERED in bubbles!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2011 at 10:39pm
That looks to me like O2 bubbles hanging up in the diatom algae growing there on the glass. There has been some die off because of the low Alk and now that the tank is healthy again, the algae is a natural consequence. The biofiltration, algae, bugs, worms and bacteria, is recovering. It's filtering the water by it's growth. There is some extra N because of the die off. This die off could be anything, even an unseen bacterial population that had trouble with the low Alk. I read once that the weight of all the bacteria in the earth is more than all other life combined. Yes there is that much bacteria! eeewww Smile

If that algae is on the glass in the main tank, that indicates there are not enough snails. I'd add maybe 20-30 snails, Astrea, Cerith and Margarita. If that is the Refugium, I wouldn't worry, algae is supposed to grow there, but if you would rather see into the Refugium, I'd add ~10 snails. I assume there is Macroalgae there and it's growing well enough to double every 3 months or so?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russianrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2011 at 8:47am
For anyone interested I thought I might add that, while Cu does not cause breakouts of cyanobacteria, cyanobacteria has an effect on Cu levels where it will absorb it out of the water column, and so it is a nice thing to have in your sump or somewhere in your water where it isn't too annoying as it will remove any amounts of many harmful chemicals that could be dangerous to your tank inhabitants.  You might call it nature's super filter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2011 at 9:28am
what CA Reactor could you recommend?
 
I have a geo ca reactor that Ive had for several years now...  I had to replace the regulator but the reactor has held up great!!
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