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FlooringGuy 
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 Topic: External Return Pump
Posted: March 01 2011 at 10:44am |
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I was curious if anyone here uses a external return pump. I would need one that will do at least 25-30 ft from my basement to the top of my display case.
I can put my sump under my tank. I am weighing the cost/benefit.
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tcfab
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 10:52am |
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You might want to look into the Reeflo line of pumps, they are great pumps.
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Need custom acrylic work? give me a call, www.Elite-Aquatics.net (801)645-6386
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snoyce
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 11:13am |
Wow thats at the higher end of head that I have seen on most aquarium pumps. I think any of the pumps you find that can overcome that much head are going to run in the 150 - 200 Watt range for power. Something like
ReeFlo are good pumps, but any of their line that can overcome that much head is pretty expensive.
and still at 175 Watts
So If I am calulating right at 10 cents a Killwatt hour running 175 watt for 24 hours a day you are looking at 42 cents a day or around 15 dollars a month in power to run the pump.
Personally I love having a basement sump and think its totally worth it, to have all the noisy equipment and sump downstairs and can do water changes and topoff and everything else that is messy downstairs right by the drain is priceless. Sure makes water changes easy.
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Scott Noyce
90G reef ready AGA display
basment 20G sump, 29G fuge
4x54 watt T5 retro SLR
Octopus NW150
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FlooringGuy
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 12:18pm |
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The best reef flo to keep about 1000 gph return for my head line is 360 watts.
To keep the return 2000-3000gph are closer to 600-900 watts.
When I was doing the math it made me wonder if there is that much benefit or if I should redefine the way I lay things out.
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RandyVB
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 1:08pm |
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25-30 ft? are you going up 2 stories. my sump is in the basement and I only have 16 ft of head.
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Yep, that's my money pit......It keeps me broke and entertained.
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snoyce
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 1:28pm |
Yah me 2 Mine is the the basement on a stand and I only have to overcome about 10-12 feet of head.
Personally I don't think you need 1000 - 2000 Gallons per hour going through the sump, I would settle for 500 - 700 and save the energy and additional pump costs
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Scott Noyce
90G reef ready AGA display
basment 20G sump, 29G fuge
4x54 watt T5 retro SLR
Octopus NW150
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FlooringGuy
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 1:33pm |
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I was under the impression that when you are calculating head you add the vertical (17') and the horizontal (10')
Is that correct or is it just the vertical?
If 500 will do that # seems a lot more reasonable.
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Nick801
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 1:49pm |
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just consider the .433 lbs that water weights per foot of height
horizontal just takes away slightly from dynamic pressure but 10' is nothing to worry about if you have a decent static pressure from the pump
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snoyce
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 1:53pm |
You only really need to count the vertical, but if you want to be more exact to find the flow rate the horizontal does play into it.
Use the headloss calculator on reefcentral, it will take into account the pipe size, fittings and horizontal to correctly give you a better idea of the flow left for specific pumps, its pretty cool
How big is your diplay and sump going to be? If they are not really big like 240 gallon diplay with 180 gallon sump, I think a lower flow rate like 500-700 is fine for a sump. Some people swear by more but to me its just that much harder to control the noise and salt creep at the sump from the display above.
What kind of overflow are you going to use, I would suggest looking at one of the full siphon setups for a basement sump, its the only way I have found to keep the noise down and stop the splashing and salt creep from the fall above, the herbie method is what I call the overflow, I know there is another variation with another additional backup pipe but I forget what it is commonly called
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Scott Noyce
90G reef ready AGA display
basment 20G sump, 29G fuge
4x54 watt T5 retro SLR
Octopus NW150
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FlooringGuy
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 2:14pm |
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I am using a 225 Gallon display (Nick's Old Tank) 100 Gallon Sump. I am glad to hear that it is mainly vertical. I am for sure doing my sump in the basement.
I am not sure what kind of overflow it is. (Still new to the hobby)
Nick could better answer that ?
I am open to doing whatever will work best.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: March 02 2011 at 9:05am |
The overflow is best not used as the total water circulation of the system. Let's put this into perspective. We used to have simple glass boxes of water. No overflows, no skimmers, nothing like that. Around 1997 we were intruduced to the idea of an RDP Refugium.  The manufacturers soon came up with the built in overflow which caught on like wildfire. Great idea and very useful to a point. We started trying to make the return pump the entire aquarium circulation. Never could get it right. The flow over the spillway just wasn't enough to make all coral do well and it was often very noisy.  The Durso overflow was invented. Eureka, quieter overflows.  We used the Closed Loop system but that meant another powerful external pump, more holes in the glass box and more leaks, even major leaks.  Around 2005 Powerheads improved significantly. People modified them to make the impeller magnet turn a "propeller". The Stream Powerhead was born. So where are we now? To be brief, the best technical methods today call for just enough water pushed by the return pump to move about 300-1000 gph(depending on tank size) though the sump/Refugium with a ball valve on the drain to quiet the overflow and a screen to prevent obstructions at the ball valve with powerheads (stream or traditional) placed in the lower back corners of the display pushing water up to the surface for the best overall turbulent flow and great gas exchange. Make sense? Questions?
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sunflashx
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Posted: March 04 2011 at 12:11pm |
 snoyce wrote:
ReeFlo are good pumps, but any of their line that can overcome that much head is pretty expensive.
and still at 175 Watts
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Just a note about the UNO line of ReeFlo pumps, if it was built in the last 2 years and has the newer 1/3 HP motor you can put any of the 3 models impellers on the pump. Tarpon, Wahoo or Marlin. $35 for the bigger/smaller impeller and seals.
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