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mikenmandymoo 
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 Topic: To sump or not sump
Posted: December 30 2011 at 9:13pm |
Hello fellow hobbists! I have the 40 gal tank now running well (or at least well enough for a new tank.  ) thanks to everyone on here as well as the fabulous guys at Reef On! And now we are starting the cycling process of the 65 gallon tank... So our question to the forum is with our 65 gal tank - we are running a canister filter currently but wanted to know if we should go to a refugium or sump pump with protein skimmer?
Thanks for the help!  |
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DLindquist
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Posted: December 30 2011 at 10:59pm |
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I'm a huge fan of the "sump" idea. In fact that's all I've used in my 16 years of reefing. Allows for filters, heaters, skimmer, refugium.... All to be nicely contained and tucked away.
Edited by DLindquist - December 30 2011 at 11:00pm
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A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have.
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mikenmandymoo
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Posted: December 30 2011 at 11:18pm |
 DLindquist wrote:
I'm a huge fan of the "sump" idea. In fact that's all I've used in my 16 years of reefing. Allows for filters, heaters, skimmer, refugium.... All to be nicely contained and tucked away. |
Thanks Don! Although... I must admit that I'm so new I don't know HOW to set up the "sump". I don't have a pump to pull the water or anything I'll admit... Any ideas would be welcome.
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Elite-Aquatics
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Posted: December 30 2011 at 11:56pm |
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You might want to visit www.melevsreef.com there is a lot of info on sumps along with diagrams, hope that helps you!
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Premium aquarium filtration!
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DLindquist
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Posted: December 31 2011 at 12:11am |
mikenmandymoo wrote:
DLindquist wrote:
I'm a huge fan of the "sump" idea. In fact that's all I've used in my 16 years of reefing. Allows for filters, heaters, skimmer, refugium.... All to be nicely contained and tucked away. |
Thanks Don! Although... I must admit that I'm so new I don't know HOW to set up the "sump". I don't have a pump to pull the water or anything I'll admit... Any ideas would be welcome. |
I've been called worse (it's actually David but no worries). I was sound asleep when tornado winds picked up outside. I couldn't go back to sleep before jumping on the forum. I would be happy to discuss any and all ideas later in the day but for now check out my build thread. It may give you some ideas. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49282&PN=1&title=our-265-gallon-upgrade-12-29-11-update
Edited by DLindquist - December 31 2011 at 12:12am
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A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 31 2011 at 12:21am |
Have you read the story about my first Refugium? Sea Star Newsletter - RDP FiltrationThough it is certainly not necessary, there are at least 10 benefits to using a sump/Refugium: - increased volume > a larger amount of water is always better - nightime pH control > reduces pH swing from day to night (healthier tank) - air exchange > adding O2 and removing CO2 - increased filtration from live algae - increased filtration from live sand - emergency filtration > 24/7 lighting forces algae to grow and eat major amounts of pollution - feeds the tank > bugs and their young growing in Refugium are sucked into the main tank - algae growth in the Refugium inhibits nuisance algae growth in the display - provides a temporary holding place to put extra or problem animals - provides a safe place to dose chemicals - provides a place to keep mechanical filtration equipment Hope that helps.  Aside from this MB, the greatest value of the WMAS is the wonderful community of hobbyists that are anxious to open their doors to you. All you need is to ask and many will respond with an invitation to come over and learn how they do their sump/Refugium and they will probably give you free algae to start your Refugium. Feel the 
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Ahanix
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Posted: December 31 2011 at 1:02am |
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I'm just going to stay out of the whole fuge vs no fuge argument and focus primarily on the sump (I'm one of the guys that runs a pellet reactor and don't really favor the fuge)
Main purposes of a Sump from my point of view
1- Place to throw all of your junk you don't want to be seen in your tank. Skimmer, Heater, Probes.etc (Keeps your display looking nice, nobody wants to see all the junk that goes in to keeping a reef, unless they are really into the hobby, in which case they are going to ask to look at all of that stuff anyways)
2- Extra Water Volume - Why have a 120g tank when you can have a 160g one with the same footprint?
3- Filter Socks and other easily changeable filtration
4- Makes water changes and top off a lot easier
5- And last but not least, why would you argue with having your display full of water all the time, rather than having to worry about topping the evap off before people come over to look at it because you have neglected it all week? - I personally would be sold off on a sump just for the fact that my tank always appears full.
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Teknik777
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Posted: December 31 2011 at 1:53am |
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I couldn't imagine my tank without one to many benefits in my eyes. Mark pretty much sums it up for you. When doesn't Mark sum it lol? Glad to have him as a active member!
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220 G SPS Display.
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mikenmandymoo
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Posted: December 31 2011 at 7:39am |
Thanks everyone for the wonderful suggestions! I will have to check out the links and start my research into the sump. I have an extra 10 gal hanging around the house... would that be a good start? I have a commercially built Sump box that came with the 125 gal tank we bought...but wanted to save that for the 125 gal when we decide to start that monster of a tank... (eventually - when we've learned enough about the hobby.)
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 31 2011 at 11:00am |
There is no reason to argue "for" or "against" the sump/Refugium idea. To me, it has to do with what kind of organisms are wanted in the display along with equipment, space and money considerations. A 10 gal tank can make a fine Refugium. But if it were me, I'd strongly consider setting up the specially built Sump box. That would give you an already established Refugium with no waiting when you set up the 125 gal. I had almost forgotten about the Reefkeeping Tip regarding an easy RDP RefugiumYou will definitely want to read that.
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superman1981
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 4:09pm |
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If you have the supplies to setup a sump (or the cash allotted for it) I think it would be a great addition to your setup. That being said, it is possible to have a nice setup without a sump. I ran my 125 for over 3 years without a sump. I lived in a 3rd floor condo, and didn't want to risk flooding the two units below me. Sure I had more equipment in the tank, but once the coraline covered it the tank looked great.
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Sure you are, you are Crappy Reef Club Member #1 -Chk4tix 6 gal nanocube 65 gal build thread
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laynframe
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 6:42pm |
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Sump it for sure! You are going to want to run canbon, phosphate reactor, or bio pellets, skimmer, heater and you want the extra volume of water to help stabalize your perams!
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The time we enjoy wasting isn't wasted time!!!!
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 03 2012 at 9:48am |
I know Refugiums. I'm the guy who started what may have been the first Refugium in Utah back in 1997, just before John Walsh published his article about it. It wasn't mentioned yet, but your tank could do just as well without any
external filtration equipment/canister filter. It's the four live components; LS, LR, Algae and LW, that do the
real filtration. All of that is possible in a plain box of water.
Here is an example of one of my many plain tanks: 
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mikenmandymoo
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Posted: January 03 2012 at 10:10pm |
Thanks for the thoughts Mark... So perhaps jsut the Live Rock and the rest of the appropriate components would be sufficent? At least until I can get a refugium to help with the Macroalgae growth? What would you suggest then to ensure that I had the right ratio of LR / LS to the amount of Fish and LW & Algae in the tank? We REALLY like the Zoas and some of the softer corals - and wanted to make sure that the water was being filtered properly so we went with a canister filter with LR rubble in the bottom - but admittedly I was thinking sumps were REQUIRED once we got into the bigger tanks. Also - with our 65 gal tank - we would need a HOB overflow box because it's not drilled for drainage etc... any suggestions / ideas on how to adequately create the box with being fiscally minded as well?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 04 2012 at 10:56am |
The tank's biofiltration will actually grow to meet the supply of waste/pollution being produced by the fish. Algae blooms are a response to pollution not being adequately handled by the organisms in the LS and LR. Fish are the polluters. Coral and most organisms living in and on LS, LR and LW are the water cleaners. Have you posted a pic of your tank somewhere, or can you post it here? A pic truly is worth a thousand words. Send a message to my email address [email protected] and I will reply with my write up about a Simple DIY Overflow box with info on how to design and check it to be confident it won't allow an overflow.
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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