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bubblenbrain 
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 Topic: DIY Rock?
Posted: July 11 2005 at 4:21am |
I would like to bet that with all the ocolite sand y'all have in utah, that a lot of members explore making agarcrete rocks. So, has anyone experimented with using chickenwire/fibermesh for making more detailed or exotic moldings? The sand method is limited to rounded edges mostly, not much room for sharp edges like you would find in nature. Fiberglass applications are another route I was going to explore. So, if any have played with these, some disadvantages/ advantages that were experienced, hints on getting the looks seeked.
I am looking at the possibilities. Leeching of heavy metals is the only problem that I am worried about though with wire.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 9:21am |
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1. First Rule of Reefkeeping - MO METAL IN THE TANK or WATER SUPPLY
Fiberglas may not grow corraline algae.
Rock structures are not bad when stacked correctly. Check out the "tripod" method I posted a few months ago.
Some people use acrylic dowels through holes drilled in the LR to hold pieces together. Personally I think that looks dumb, because you can see the dowels.
Edited by Mark Peterson
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 9:37am |
Wow that is funny I was thinking all the opposites of Mark. I like fiberglass, I say use it. I don't like tripod rock formations, and I too would prefer much more angles and sharp items. I haven't found a good way to make an artificial plating monti or acro. I'm thinking firing up some clay in the oven is the best method.
And I love drilling rocks and making rock-ka-bobs with acrylic rods. Otherwise I can't fine pieces of rock anywhere near large enough to use.
Adam
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bubblenbrain
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 11:30am |
Don't get me wrong, not bashing Just asking
Mark, isn't the rule of no metal a little two faced?.....is not iron one of the main minerals used up by macro algae(not counting money tree which uses calcium to form walls) to fortify there cell walls not to mention it is of a highest content already in mud a few users use in the refugiums that have mangrove or algae scubbers? Why would we as concerned divers/reefers sink large metal ships as artifical reef structure for marine habitat? (I know the answer to that, but it does have a bit of relavence)
The fiber glass mesh would only be used as a base to sculpture the agarocrete on top and bottom..
I am putting up a new 100G *60x18x20* in September, and I want to make a agarocrete show piece that will then be seeded with reef grunge from GARF and then actual coralline cultures i will be making from some of my trips to the tidepools. I got the idea from a shark tank that a japanese friend of mine has....his aquascape was done with wire then concreted. Not unless I can get a hold of some of the great fossilized rock and sand that is so abundant in Utah quarries
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Tiny bubbles in my head
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 11:34am |
Oh, I do agree with Mark on the no metal thing. I'd avoid that like the plague. If I had to use a frame work for the aragocrete I'd sure try using acrylic rods or pvc or even wood.
Adam
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bubblenbrain
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 11:37am |
I just can't really think of a different way to get those shelfs and ridges that I really would like to accomplish
I thought about galvinized..but zinc is more ditromental than steel
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Tiny bubbles in my head
:) what was the count again....1, 2, 8, 3
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jfinch
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 1:48pm |
No metal in your tank (maybe a stainless hose clamp, maybe). Your 100 gallon tank is not the same as the 250,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallon ocean.
Have you thought about using the plastic mesh that is used for stucco?
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 2:16pm |
Jon,
I like the mesh idea, and where did you get that water volume figure?
Adam
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jfinch
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 3:34pm |
where did you get that water volume figure?
Since my copy of Millero's Chem Oceanography is home, I had to go with this: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/env99/env182.htm . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean gives an even larger number: 360,...(all those zeros from above).
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 3:58pm |
The first reference doesn't include the arctic ocean. Right? Hmm, I'm not sure what I would say the total volume is. And the second reference... you converted that to gallons right?
Adam
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jfinch
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 6:06pm |
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jfinch
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Posted: July 11 2005 at 7:55pm |
Millero is in agreement with wikipedia: total ocean volume of 1,349,930,000 km3 (and I believe Frank... give or take a few gallons  ).
Edited by jfinch
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Dion Richins
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Posted: July 12 2005 at 12:49am |
 jfinch wrote:
(and I believe Frank... give or take a few gallons ).
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How exact do we need to be?
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bubblenbrain
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Posted: July 12 2005 at 10:48am |
Ok then, well...I am going to give it a try anyways, I found some manganese( trace metal need to fortify calcium carbonate in corals) wire mesh that I am going to use. leeching of this metal by the .4 PPM to 1.something PPM is really not going to upset an aquarium of 100G using filtered ocean water at 10% every week with a 1 " plenum/1" SSB, 50G refugium ,two Urchin in sump PS( got a free one from a friend here in japan ), and a DIY 1.8LBS media CR and blah blah blah. Wish me luck. If else....oh well, it will be one for the "tried and failed " boards.
Off subject....anyone played with the "WAVE2K" surge mechanism? I was thinking to run a center unit on one side of the 100G (60x18x20) the machine is just small enough to sit perfectly on the end.
Edited by bubblenbrain
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Tiny bubbles in my head
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Cichlids
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Posted: July 12 2005 at 2:48pm |
Hi,
Thought we could all use a friendly reminder. My chemistry teacher told a story of the U.S. Navy. They decided to make a ship out of stainless steel, since it won't rust. They didn't think about the salt in the ocean  . Salt will corrode even stainless steel and the ship ended up on the bottom of the ocean.
Good Luck
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: July 12 2005 at 9:38pm |
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Bubblenbrain, You are ridiculous.
You read the posts above from people that have solid experience with reef aquariums and science in general, and then choose to ignore their knowledge. That's simply unwise.
Certainly, Manganese is a trace metal in seawater, but that does not make it safe to use in any size of reef aquarium. The Manganese wire will result in elevated levels of Manganese in the tank.
Also the mesh is most likely only plated with Manganese and is ordinary steel underneath. This will result in a two metal contamination. Do you know what effect high levels of manganese has on reef organisms?
A copper penny left in the tank doesn't just leach the amount of copper normally found in seawater, it raises the copper level, killing all inverts.
Titanium is one metal that is safe, does not leach or corrode. A nail rusts, aluminum corrodes, etc. Be smart. Do not use the Manganese wire mesh. Use a polymer/plastic material.
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chrisslc
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Posted: July 13 2005 at 8:49am |
I'll just throw in that aragocrete can be made to virtually any shape, angle, and structure, with no reinforcing. Good strength, workability for forming, and entrained voids can all be achieved by mixing as dry as possible. That is adding only enough water to hydrate the cement.
But if you have to reinforce, stick with plastics.
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Murray, Utah just north of the park.
"It's all the same to the clam" -Shel Silverstein
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: July 13 2005 at 7:18pm |
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Chrisslc is the undisputed King of Aragocrete. His pieces are very strong and water flows through them like a sieve. Walt Smith, the King of LR in Fiji, recently came to our club. He wants Chris to show him how to do it. His recipe has been posted and I would advise Bubblenbrain to learn from Jedi Master Chrisslc.
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