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RO unit help in davis county

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1stupidpunk View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 12 2014 at 4:13pm
I bought an RO unit from nikki a while back and just barely got around to installing it. It came with no instructions and no apparent markings to distinguish the manufacturer. I believe i have it installed correctly as it does produce water when i open the valve, however, it only produces about 2-5 gallons per day and the pressure gauge says its only getting about 20(ish)psi and that its operating pressure is 45-80. Im fairly certain that i have the waste water correct but perhaps i have the RO tank line and the other clean water line swapped? Could somebody with a bit more knowledge with RO units take a look and see if i have it installed wrong?

House is located in Clearfield...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LaRue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2014 at 5:18pm
Can you take a pic of where you have the lines connected to the unit and post them on here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2014 at 5:40pm
I'm happy to help...sory you're having problems. The 20psi pressure has me a bit perplexed there. How's the pressure at your home? If I can find time this weekend, I could stop by...but again, I don't know what could cause that low pressure within the unit itself. It's a 25gpd system with all new filters and membrane. How did you install the unit? Did you use a saddle vakve and pierce an existing line? If so, that's probably the issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2014 at 2:48pm
ok here we go....

Full shot of the entire unit... i know you cant see it but the order of the canisters is from left to right Carbon, Carbon, Precarbon for which i installed .5 micron, 5 micron, sediment filter


Low pressure, pressure in my other faucets seems decent.


Red line is the water inlet line, both of these valves are opened all the way.


Red line attached to here, its a bit hard to tell but the plastic fittings has "IN" stamped into it.


Blue line attached here flows out to the service water faucet. This is right at the post carbon filter and is stamped "OUT"


When i use the faucet water does come out with decent pressure, but only produces about a gallon or so per use before loosing pressure...


This white tube was already attached to the post carbon filter flowing to the tank...





This black line is what i assume is the waste water..


so i attached it with saddle (thanks again Ann_A)



Anyone see any issues that would cause the lack of pressure? Im hoping that i just hooked up a line in the wrong spot and that its not something more serious....


Edited by 1stupidpunk - June 14 2014 at 4:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reefer4Ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2014 at 6:56pm
I know nothing about rodi units and you will probably tell based on my following comment. Why would you have a waste line from the tank that fills with your rodi water? Oh I do believe I have shown enough ignorance for one night, I hope to learn something here so please post what ever is going on. Thanks I'm following.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wickedsnowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 1:37am
Originally posted by Reefer4Ever Reefer4Ever wrote:

I know nothing about rodi units and you will probably tell based on my following comment. Why would you have a waste line from the tank that fills with your rodi water? Oh I do believe I have shown enough ignorance for one night, I hope to learn something here so please post what ever is going on. Thanks I'm following.


They don't that picture is of the ro membrane.
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 5:27am
Yes is looks like it may be hooked it up for correct operation, with one possible caveat*.

The white storage tank holds 3 gallons of purified water. It is pressurized with <10 psi to slowly release 2-3 gallons in about 10-15 minutes. Is it doing that Question

What is the TDS of the purified water Question

As far as water pressure, that is controlled by the automatic shut off valve, visible at the left of the RO Membrane in the next to last pic. When the unit is making water, the auto-shut-off is open and the pressure gauge should read pretty close to the house water pressure. When the storage tank is full the valve shuts and water pressure at the gauge returns to zero.

* Where is the waste water Flow Restrictor Question If it isn't a tiny internal part at the front inside of the black waste water line then it is a finger sized cartridge installed inline on the waste line leading directly to the sewer pipe. In the first pic, it almost looks like there is a flow restrictor cartridge hooked up in the black waste water line between the RO Membrane and the small cartridge clipped above the RO Membrane? It isn't clear in the pics. The black waster water line should go from the RO Membrane to the Restrictor only and then to the sewer pipe.


Edited by Mark Peterson - June 14 2014 at 6:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 6:21am
Yes mark the sediment pre-filter is installed in the canister where the red line comes into the unit, the next canister has the 5 micron filter, and the last canister has the .5 filter.
 
I will have to watch the unit when i get home from work to watch the gauge carefully, from what i was seeing the other day even when the tank was empty and the unit was making water the gauge didnt move past 20psi.
 
When i use the faucet to collect the water about a gallon comes out with good pressure filling a one gallon pitcher in about one minute, it then looses almost all pressure and just trickles out after.... i do still have my old tank from my old 2 stage RO, i may see if using a different tank makes any difference.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 6:29am
Sorry, I edited my post above, so take another look at it.
If you don't get at least 2 gals in 10 minutes the storage tank pressure may be a little low.

On my RO unit I have two storage tanks hooked together so I can get ~5 gals in ~15 minutes. Adding that in requires only a "T" fitting and some tubing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 6:40am

Ah i see what you did there....

I will have a look at the waste water line and get back to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 7:03am
There is no reason why this shouldn't operate correctly. The pressure tank looks like mine and I get just a few gallons of water out of it at pressure, then it stops to a trickle. About half the size of the tank is used to hold air in a bladder to provide the pressure. To fill that tank to capacity you have to have more water pressure than tank pressure, so I doubt that's a problem. I bypass the pressure tank to make aquarium water and then use the tank for the ice maker. Once the pressurized water in the tank is exhausted, the whole thing slows to a trickle.

To check your setup look at this link. It has one fewer filters than you do, but the setup should be the same.

http://spectrapure.com/huds/3-STAGE-DWK-RO-NAG.pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 8:07am
Great diagram Kevin.
In that diagram the waste water flow restrictor is of the internal type. It's a very small part that fits inside the waste water line where it connects to the RO Membrane. The other type of Restrictor is easily visible as an inline cartridge. Here is a nice image of it:



P.S. In a few years when it's time for a new RO Membrane, upgrade to a 75 gpd and get an appropriately rated flow restrictor. (I actually use an ordinary inline valve, which I can adjust for any gpd membrane and can set for maximum performance.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 8:37am
OK so looking at the diagram i have mine set up very similar with a one big difference.... my unit has a line for service water and a line for the tank so i dont have that "T" fitting splitting the line.
 
Okay mark i know for a fact that i dont have an inline flow restricter like the one pictured above, i assume my unit must have an internal one?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 9:17am
On your unit, tThe "T" is at the connection out of the final carbon canister.

So it would appear that the air pressure in the bladder side of the storage tank is insufficient. Use a tire gauge to check it and a bike pump to increase it. The max pressure is sometimes marked near the air valve which is on the bottom or lower side of the tank, usually 5-7 psi when emptied of water.

One thing still, after the initial release of water under pressure(15 mins), if you allow the faucet to drip, how long does it take to fill a gal jug? If it's not getting at least 20 gpd, then the RO Membrane may be fouled. How long did this sit unused between the time you got it and started using it? Unused, even for 2 months, a membrane can get fouled with bacterial growth. In that case, the only thing I know is to toss it out and buy a new one.

Found this troubleshooting guide:
http://espwaterproducts.com/trouble-shooting-guide.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 10:22am
It had all new filters and membrane when he picked it up. My guess is that he is just hooking it up so the membrane is new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 12:30pm
yes all the filters and membrane are brand new, after reading marks troubleshooting guide he linked im pretty sure my tank pressure is to low, or perhaps the bladder has ruptured. I will get a gauge on it and see what psi im getting. i should have saved the link but i just read an article about running hydrogen peroxide thru your RO unit (with all filters and membrane removed) to sterilze it.
 


Edited by 1stupidpunk - June 14 2014 at 12:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2014 at 2:38pm
Lol.... think we may have just solved the issue!

I used my tire pressure gauge and the empty tank has 1psi, which when i think about it makes alot of sense. After i collect about a gallon of water i would loose almost all water pressure as their was no air pressure in the tank, the trickle i see is most likely just what the RO membrane is producing back into the tank. I will pump it up to 7psi, let her fill, and see if that fixes my issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2014 at 6:03pm
BINGO!

I pumped it up to 7 psi and let the system fill overnight, today it produced all 3 gallons in about 8 mins then the gauge on the ro unit finally moved into the 40psi range.
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