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Why dont I have an ammonia spike?

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Connie View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 19 2004 at 10:08am
I set up a 45 gallon around 7 days ago. I put in new black sand, a ton of calarpa from my ref. so it was full of bugs and two crabs, the slug from 6 other tanks. I have now added 2 damsels and I still have no level changes. Is it possible to cycle a tank with no high levels of ammonia and nitrates??
I have flying monkeys and I'm not afraid to use them.

180 gallon money pit that I love.....
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Adam Haycock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2004 at 10:19am
I have never observed spikes in any of my tanks. I attribute it to low die-off from the LR and sufficient populations of nitrifying bacteria.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jglover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2004 at 12:36pm
Everything is possible.  Bacteria grows in exponential rates so if it was seeded well, and even calerpa can seed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2004 at 1:04pm
two damsels in 45 gallons of water is not much of a bioload.  I'm sure the caulerpa has helped to jump start the cycle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSpargur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2004 at 1:20pm
Connie - I also believe that you said your rock was cured already in another of your tanks.  If you don't have a lot of die-off from the rocks, generally you won't have spikes.  If you add the livestock into the system slowly, the nitrification process will be barely detectable.  The bacteria will reproduce just enough to nitrify the load that is in the system.
Sean Spargur
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Connie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Connie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2004 at 2:50pm
That must be it... I put in 3 tonga branches and then 2 days ago a 5lbs rock from my main tank. With the water from other tanks and the plants..... Maybe this will be easier then I thought.....
I have flying monkeys and I'm not afraid to use them.

180 gallon money pit that I love.....
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2004 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Connie Connie wrote:

That must be it... I put in 3 tonga branches and then 2 days ago a 5lbs rock from my main tank. With the water from other tanks and the plants..... Maybe this will be easier then I thought.....

I wish the books and the LFS's were up to date like Connie is on this. This past thread is interesting reading on the topic.
Aquarium startup - a sensible change

Tank startup can be fairly easy, when there is access to LS, LR, and LW from an existing tank. Also, lately, I'm discovering that in the absense of any or all of these three things, a good dose of greenwater with sufficient light, handles any and all nitrogen compounds at startup!

Congratulations to you Connie, you have come a long way, baby.
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Connie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Connie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2004 at 11:34am
I think I maybe getting this...... Well at least some of it...
I have flying monkeys and I'm not afraid to use them.

180 gallon money pit that I love.....
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Carl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2004 at 9:46am

I think that this is a great lesson for many of us. Although Am spikes are rather quick and often undetected, an unbalanced chemistry has long been the downfall of many a newbie... myself included.

The one starts off with a pre-cultured system (adding LR, REAL LS, and LW) this phenomonen of new tank syndrome can be drastically reduced in period or eliminated altogether. Understanding and promoting this theory (well, it should be fact) will do wonders for the hobby if we can get the text writers on-board and documenting it.

 Connie!

In Syracuse

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Will Spencer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2004 at 8:52pm

Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

I wish the books and the LFS's were up to date like Connie is on this. 

Mark, Instead of wishing the books had the newer/better info why not do something about it.  Haven't you been wanting to write a book anyway.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when you have caleurpa in your tank wouldn't it rather take up Amonia instead of Nitrate?  That was my understanding.  In this case you may not ever see an amonia spike as the plants would use it before it had a chance to spike.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2004 at 9:14pm
I'll bet the book would be perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Jeff
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I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2004 at 9:59pm
Will, Yeah I started writing a booklet that we could give to new members or anyone that asked for it. It contained stuff like this. I made it available here on the MB, but few people were interested so I stopped writing.

A few of us were talking real late at Dee's after the meeting. We were wondering if anyone cares about our club's Library. After all, when you have a question, it's answered here by the next day, usually within hours!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2004 at 7:25pm

I think the library is still a good thing to have.  When I was a newbie I read 3 books on setting up SW and Reef tanks cover to cover.  They all had much of the same info, but I read them for the little bit of different info anyway.  For those of us that are a little more advanced the more in depth books in the library are great.  Then there are the books with pictures in them.  Those are my favorite.  Seriously though I just got Dr. Burgess's Atlas of Marine Aquarium Fish used on E-bay just so I could look at the pictures.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jglover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2004 at 10:07am
Originally posted by wsinbad1 wsinbad1 wrote:

[Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when you have caleurpa in your tank wouldn't it rather take up Amonia instead of Nitrate? 

Algae takes up Nitrates and Phosphates to build cell walls and aid in photosynthesis, large ammounts of Ammonia are toxic to almost all plants that is why you neighbors dog crap kills your grass.

Plants use a little ammonia but most gets broken down to nitrite by aerobic bacteria

see http://www.soils.agri.umn.edu/academics/classes/soil2125/doc /s9chap2.htm

for a nice explanation.

here is how fertilizers help plants.

 - Nitrogen (N) or nitrate

Nitrogen promotes foliage and overall growth.

 - Phosphorus (P) or phosphates

Phosphorus promotes root development.

- Potassium (K)

Potassium promotes diseases resistance plus the flowering and fruit development in plants.

Fertilizers that contain ammonia are time release, depending on the breakdown of the ammonia over time to fertilize plants.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2004 at 10:58am

jglover,  you might find this link interesting:  http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration. htm

Aquatic plants are different then terrestrial ones.  Your grass might like nitrates but duckweed prefers ammonia/ammonium.  Whether or not this applies to marine plants I'm not sure, but I'd guess it does.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2004 at 4:14pm
That's why my new tank is very green right now. I'm using unicellular algae to absorb ammonia/um. The green is growing so good, the nitrogen eating bacteria are probably starving!

I'm giving away phytoplankton. Want some?

Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jglover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2004 at 1:28pm

Jon where do you find this stuff?  That is great information. 

I wonder because I've seen many reports to the contrary???  Will we ever figure this world out?  So if Calerpa and other macros use up ammonia for structure what do mangroves use?  nitrates???

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