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paulb 
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 Topic: Good amount of water movement?
Posted: October 14 2003 at 8:01pm |
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I just purchased a 65 gallon tank. For a sump pump I bought the new Rio 20hf, which is rated at 990 gallons per hour @ 4'. I am able to upgrade to a larger pump if I want too. I also plan on running 2 aquaclear 802 rated at 400 gallons an hour each. Does this sound like a good amount of water movement for this tank?
My goal is to have alot of circulation, without having anything extra in the tank. So I frown upon the powerheads. Would moving to a larger sump pump make the powerheads unneccesary?
Thanks, Paulb
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Reefsaver
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Posted: October 14 2003 at 8:10pm |
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With the rio 24hf you'll be having a 15x turnover per hour. That should be pleanty of flow, especially if you have more than one return . If you could distribute that flow through out the tank with say a SCWD or Sea Swirl or DIY wavermaker you really shouldn't need any powerheads in your tank.
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Reefsaver
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paulb
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Posted: October 14 2003 at 11:19pm |
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At 1' the 20HF pushes 1290 gallons an hour, at 4' of head it does 990. I will have 2 returns. You guys think the bigger one is still better? The other one I am looking at is the Rio 32Hf, good for 1500 @ 4'.
Also, on the scwd. Is this really beneficial to the tank? If so, I found one for $40 that I can order. Honestly, I know what it does, but I am not sure if it is good enough to buy.
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Suzy
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Posted: October 15 2003 at 7:19am |
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I'm setting up our new 70 aga just like you are, it sounds like, except we only have 1 return.I decided on the RIO 24 . The water motion is great. I think the 32 might be too much. Ours is great, but the sand needs to get heavier! I really like the look of the Figi pink, but it is light...I'm hoping as it gets colonized, it won't look like a sand dune! I have the return pointed at the other side, which makes a high flow area, and under the return it is less flow, where I can put the 'shrooms..........
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jfinch
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Posted: October 15 2003 at 8:32am |
The only thing I'll add is try to use the right size piping. In addition to the 4' of vertical head you also have frictional losses in the pipe. Here's an example:
Lets say you've got 4 vertical feet from pump to tank and the piping required three elbows and 4 feet of pipe. Flow rate is 1,000 gph.
with 1/2" pipe: frictional losses are 16' (feet water pressure)
with 3/4" pipe: frictional losses are 5'
with 1" pipe: frictional losses are 1.5'
Total head losses are those values plus the 4' vertical head, so:
total head: 1/2" pipe = 20'
3/4" pipe = 9'
1" pipe = 5.5'
It's easy to see that you burn up a lot of head using 1/2" pipe!
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paulb
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Posted: October 15 2003 at 5:34pm |
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Great Suzy, now I know someone who is setting their tank up to swap advice with before I get this thing going. I am not familiar with the Rio 24, but if it is anything like the HF series, that would be a pretty serious pump. What kind of overflow,a and what size of pvc will you be running with that much pump?
Thanks Jfinch, I went out today and picked up all of the 3/4" parts I need to plumb this baby. I thought about 1", but the output nozzle on the pump is only 3/4" also.
Edited by paulb
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Suzy
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Posted: October 15 2003 at 5:40pm |
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We got the fansy-pansy set-up that All Glass makes for their overflow. I had some fat clear aquarium tubing in the basement that fit perfectly, after I put the end in boiling H2O to soften it up. I don't like pvc. It's too inflexable (Kinda like Rob!). You can get it at my favorite store:Home Depot!
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Shane H
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Posted: October 15 2003 at 9:00pm |
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Be careful with RIO powerheads! I have had two different RIOs burn up on me. I was using them for returns on a 55 gallon tank with about 4' head. They lasted about 14 months though. I never let them run dry. They really stink when they burn up and they release some oil into the water.
I have used smaller ones at 0' head for years, without any problems.
Good luck!
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Suzy
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 4:02am |
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Crap! Did they hurt anything when they released oil?
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John Fletcher
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 8:35am |
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I had a Rio 1100 freeze up and electricuted my 7 month old Copper band and 2 year old Yellow tank, not to mention it released that nasty oil slick, what a mess.
I am in the process of setting up a closed loop with an external pump. It pumps 1320 GPH and it is going to be on a SCWD. I will post when it is finished.
Edited by John Fletcher
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John Fletcher
20 years experience
(Tank of the Month for May 2003)Taking a little break...
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Diverdan
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 9:48am |
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I will second that rios will burn up. The casing that keeps the motor sealed is known to crack on the 2100 and 2500 models. I don't know if they have fixed the flaw on the new model you are refering to. I had my 2100 break and cause the burning oil slick in my tank as well.
Do a search on reef central and you will probably never buy a Rio again based on all the problems people have had.
Mag pumps get good reviews and I just acquired a Quiet One pump that I like allot.
Hopefully RIO has fixed that problem.
Rich "Diverdan"
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75 Gallon Reef
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Suzy
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 11:01am |
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John, what kinda pump did you get?
I do like our mag drive, but it is so noisy.....
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John Fletcher
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 11:50am |
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Carlos gave me a name on ebay. I got a LT5600 Aquarium Pump 1320GPH** Here is the address
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2347786867&ed=1064353946#ebayphotohosting
I have not hooked it up yet. I will let you know how it runs.
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John Fletcher
20 years experience
(Tank of the Month for May 2003)Taking a little break...
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Will Spencer
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 12:54pm |
I am using an Iwaki external pump, (Them ugly green things.) It was used when I got it and I haven't had it very long, but It must take a lot to burn them up.
My 150 gallon tank is at my accounting office and though someone is there every day, I'm not. Last Monday morning the boss called and said "You better get in here quick this thing is making a horrible noise." I figured enough water had evaporated over the weekend that it was sucking a bit of air into the pump.
Nope!!! Somehow the sump had sprung a leak and 45 gallons of water had leaked out onto the floor overnight. The pump was running completely dry and probably had been for at least several hours. He was right, it was making a horrible grinding noise. I immediately turned it off, swapped the sump for a rubbermaid, filled it up and started the pump. (fully expecting to have to buy a new one.) It fired right up, no grinding or anything. It has been running the rest of this week a cooly and camly as ever.
Just my recent pump experience.
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paulb
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 4:25pm |
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I checked into the new Rio HF pumps, and from what I have heard they have fixed all of the old problems for these new line of pumps. I have not heard one bad thing from anyone about them, from the LFS, to people out in California, where they have been out for about 6 months now. I hope they work out great for us.
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 8:08pm |
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I just barely got a tunze turbelle stream pump that does 1850gph and uses only 15 watts of power. So far it is working great for circulation in my 90gal. I use a rio2500 for my return pump from my sump and after 3 months the propeller already needed to be replaced. If it goes out again I'll definetly get an external pump.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 16 2003 at 10:39pm |
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The great thing about those cheap rubbermaid sumps with large powerheads is that they don't spring leaks, just don't expect them to hold if you fill them completely!
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inspector eric
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Posted: October 23 2003 at 10:09am |
For what is worth I have a 32 HF Rio.
It is hooked up in a 20 sump as the returm pump on my 150. It pushes against an almost 5' head through a single 1" hose return and it seems to work great. We will see how I like it long term. I have only had it 2 weeks. The noise level is about where one would expect it to be for such a large pump. I did a little testing with a 6 gallon bucket and a timer and it did a little better than advertised (at least when I tested it )....It might be from using 1" tubing instead of the 3/4 pipe. I am not a hydrologist (sp?) but an inspector, maybe the engineer in the group could answer that.
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just because it isn't leaking doesn't mean it's safe!!!!
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jfinch
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Posted: October 23 2003 at 12:40pm |
Did you call? Here's a table that shows pressure drop due to friction. You can make your own assessment. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=611
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