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Everything is Dying

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Molli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 10:47am
The flat worm exit you used didn't include instructions to immediately suck out all the dead or dying flatworms that you could get to in the tank? also i believe the carbon should be changed very shortly after using that stuff because it becomes permeated from the toxins released by dying flatworms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hogie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 11:39am
I don't dose and do rely on the water changes to replenish elements.

My water mixing station is set up so it does mix a day in advance with pumps and heaters and I make sure it matches salinity and temp before I change it. I have it sent up so water changes are pretty easy and slick.

I know each bucket can be different, but problem started when I was 3/4 through a bucket, so it wasn't a new bucket and before a use a bucket I mix it up so it should be pretty uniform throughout the bucket.

The flatworm solution does say to do a water change, but it also says if the flatworms don't die, add another half of the dosage and wait it out some more. So, that's what I did as the flatworms didn't die. I did do a water change, but it was several hrs after dosing and then the next day too. I was thinking the water change was to get rid of the toxins from the flatworms which is what I read, but thinking about it now, maybe its to get rid of the chemical itself so it does stay too long in the tank and wipe out the good bacteria. It's just weird at how fast it went down. It was really everything good when I went to bed and gone the next day.



Edited by Hogie - March 04 2015 at 11:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hogie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 2:12pm
I dropped a volt meter in at lunch and it showed 5 volts which is basically nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 2:22pm
Honestly my best guess is the flatworms dying off and the lack of carbon. Think your tank should recover quickly now that you've added some carbon.

If you want phosban or more carbon I have plenty at my place.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 2:36pm
Flatworm exit says to run extra aeration in the tank during the treatment period and some time after. Did you do anything to increase aeration in the tank?  I wonder if you are seeing these results from a drop in oxygen levels or rise in Carbon Dioxide levels? Just trying to think of things that haven't been thrown out here yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 2:47pm
Good thinkin' Krazie! Didn't even think about that at all haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hogie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 3:07pm
How do you check that? Would that affect the fish more than the corals?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 3:12pm
It could affect both. High CO2 would cause low PH which would make corals not very happy. Low Oxygen levels would stress fish more than corals but would still affect both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 3:14pm
This is why we keep Krazie around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hogie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 10:33pm
Well I got the corals out and housed in another tank (a huge thanks and shout out to Kevin for letting take over his frag tank). I had another thought. I got a different glue and glued down a bunch of frags and it was a few days later everything was when everything went bad. Could it be the glue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 10:39pm
What kind of glue was it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hogie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2015 at 10:46pm
Loctite ultra super glue gel. I've used the Loctite super glue gel (normal blue one) for yrs without a problem, but they just replaced thatproduct with a new one that supposedly has better gel control and they call it the ultra and now comes in a black container.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 4:35am
It is still cyanoacrylate, right? If so, then no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 5:59am
Good discussion.
My opinion is that because there are so many things that need to be in balance, if several things are slightly off balance, and then along comes another thing that tips out of balance, a tank crashes. Any of these things could have been going on, from Alkalinity to water changes and from lack of biofiltration to flatworm treatment. Even lack of food which I suggested earlier as too little N compounds in the water, could cause something, such as the entire population of a particular bacteria to die en mass. Bacteria is the unseen "organism" we often talk about, but cannot see. I'm just speculating, but that could have been the first domino to fall. 

It's not often that I suggest this sort of multiple-off-balance hypothesis as a possible reason for a tank crash, but it seems appropriate to bring it up here. A good follow-up discussion might answer the question of how to bring things back into balance and how to ensure better stability from here on. I have some ideas, but would like to read what you all think.

Aloha Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 11:29pm
No other chemicals used for cleaning in the room or anything you put in the tank? Glass cleaners, bug spray, carpet cleaning solutions, etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hogie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2015 at 12:17am
Nothing...I've heard a lot of horror stories about cleaners and such, so we're very cautious about that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2015 at 8:19am
Just wondering how everything is doing today?

May we see a pic of the Sump? 
What Skimmer? Exactly how much was/is it pulling out?
Refugium? Macroalgae growth continuous or stunted? Harvesting at what rate?
Bugs and worms somewhere in the system?
Sand bed in the Refugium?  
PO4 level?

A comment about something said on page 1, a Nitrate level of 20 ppm is not "really high", IMO. I consider 20 ppm within an acceptable range. If a test kit can be inaccurate at low detection levels, that means the true level could even be zero. There are good systems with stony coral even healthy SPS, running at or above 20 ppm. Because each tank is different and has it's own balance, I would suggest caution not to 'chase numbers'. That usually leads to issues.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - March 06 2015 at 9:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hogie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2015 at 8:14am
I'll get a pic of the sump later today. It does have any sand in it, but does have a bunch of live/rubble rock. I have chaeto and red graciliaria in it and it's been growing well. I flip the chaeto about once a week. There are a lot of pods in the system both in the display and sump as well as bristle worms and spaghetti worms. The live rock is covered with those mini feather dusters. I think it's Atlantic live rock because it also has a bunch of these little tiny anenomes on it (not aphasia or majanos) nut the don't seem to be a problem. It also has a bunch of white small tubular sponges and some other kind of white sponge that grows on the underside of the rocks. The skimmer is an eshopp skimmer but I'm not sure what ever model. I run it pretty wet and it pulls out 1/2 to 3/4" a day. I usually run it every other day.

One quick question, how often do I need to change out the carbon in the bag?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2015 at 11:30am
AC gets exhausted/saturated within ~2 weeks.
Flipping the Macroalgae weekly?, but that didn't say whether it is growing and at what rate it is being harvested? For example, how often is half removed to reduce the ball of Chaeto to it's previous amount?
I was wondering if the coral are looking better and what the PO4 level is currently?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2015 at 7:34am
Update?
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