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Nails12 
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 Topic: Illegal Trade
Posted: April 04 2013 at 9:24pm |
I have been following this for quite sometime. Just want to know your thoughts on it.
This would ban all the trading and selling, of all acro's as well as hammer/frogspawn, etc... Take a read, some good info.
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This is more than a hobby; its a lifestyle.
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reefnfeef
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 9:28pm |
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I'm all for it except for the inclusion of aqua cultured corals as well.
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaannd.... I'm broke
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Nails12
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 9:42pm |
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Exactly, that is pushing it too far. It said it would even be against the law to take it out of your tank, and treat it in a different one. Seems too absurd to me. And with the new "Finding Dory" coming out soon, I am sure that is going to play an impact on fish in the near future. Bummer... Speaking of... Does anybody have any Acropora they want to trade :)
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This is more than a hobby; its a lifestyle.
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wickedsnowman
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 11:29pm |
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Well if they are really becoming that endangered I could see the ban on harvesting them from the ocean. However banning aquacultured varieties is just retarded. If anything aquaculturing them lessens the effect on the ocean and would prevent extinction. There is so many corals on that list. If that passes we would have to pretty much kiss this hobby goodbye.
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Dionysus
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 12:54am |
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All I can say is wow, no way they could enforce that for coral that has been growing in peoples tanks.
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Akira
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 4:23am |
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Personally I would think that a ban on harvesting from the ocean would only encourage aqua culturing . With that statement it would also seem that it would give some time for the ocean to recover and add some coral to be replaced from culturing. But Im pretty sure that the harvesting of these corals is not what has endangered them but the serious state of pollution , global warming, MANS INTERFERENCE WITH MOTHER NATURE, etc.....Has all had an impact.
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icenine
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 5:43am |
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There are some people in the hobby, mainly Matt Pedersen, that are getting people unnecessarily riled up about this.
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icenine
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 5:47am |
To clarify, if you were to contact NOAA, they will tell you that:
You can own any coral on the list, You can continue to own them, You can transport them across state lines but not for commercial purposes, You can give or receive any specimens on the list for free but no money or services/goods can be exchanged. (IE frag swaps and giving frags to friends), Most on the list are being classified as "threatened" not "endangered" which means there will be even more "exclusions and circumstances" that allow for ownership and the likes, Other rights are available if you own the specimen prior to the new classifications, For more info on the ESA (endangered species act) or "Threatened" species classification and what it really means, go here: (ESA) http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/la...
("Threatened" species)
http://www.fws.gov/endangered/... |
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wickedsnowman
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 5:35pm |
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Well I think people should be mad and rilled up about this. I have like 10k invested in livestock in my tank. If I decided to get out of the hobby I would have to give it all away and 99% of the coral I have came from aqua cultured stuff that had no impact on the ocean.
Edited by wickedsnowman - April 05 2013 at 5:38pm
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icenine
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 6:31pm |
That isn't going to happen. ...and what is listed is only the impact on collectors and commercial sellers for the species on the list. I should also add this is in no way pointed at the hobby, the listing provides a host of other protections for the animals habitat.
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Nails12
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 9:28pm |
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Ice, I was clearly bringing up a subject that has everything to do with the hobby. Some of us aren't here to just have a tank, but we are here to learn about aquatic life. If it impacts collectors and commercial sellers, than it will definitely impact our hobby. We are collectors and some of us actually work for commercial sellers.
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ClownFishAddict
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 10:04pm |
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Well in my honest opinion I think some regulations are needed however they should also make the regulations to promote aquaculturing instead of collecting.from the ocean. With that said I do think that there should be a grandfather clause if they are to ban anything that is already out of the ocean.
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reefnfeef
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 10:23pm |
 ClownFishAddict wrote:
Well in my honest opinion I think some regulations are needed however they should also make the regulations to promote aquaculturing instead of collecting.from the ocean. With that said I do think that there should be a grandfather clause if they are to ban anything that is already out of the ocean.
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+1
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaannd.... I'm broke
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icenine
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 6:50am |
Nails12 wrote:
Ice, I was clearly bringing up a subject that has everything to do with the hobby. Some of us aren't here to just have a tank, but we are here to learn about aquatic life. If it impacts collectors and commercial sellers, than it will definitely impact our hobby. We are collectors and some of us actually work for commercial sellers. |
What I meant was this designation didn't come about because of the ornamental industry, it does effect it but those that are crying about wiping out the industry are incredibly misguided.
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BobC63
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 8:32am |
agree that I highly doubt this will pass 'as is' because parts of it (especially the limits on aquacultured stuff) are just plain dumb.
But we have passed plenty of 'dumb' legislation before...so, you never know.
And this part should concern everyone:
QUOTE=icenine]To clarify, if you were to contact NOAA, they will tell you that:
You can transport them across state lines but not for commercial purposes,
You can give or receive any specimens on the list for free but no money or services/goods can be exchanged. (IE frag swaps and giving frags to friends), [/QUOTE]
I interpret the items in red as meaning the affected corals can no longer be shipped for the purpose of commercial sales to either an LFS, or to (or from) an online site like 'Happycorals.com', 'liveaquaria.com', etc and also of course wholesalers...
Which basically means you will not be able to buy these corals ever again.
That IMO would be a HUGE blow to the hobby as we now know it. 2/3 of all the coral you now see in your LFS would just vanish. Same with the online sites. A lot of them would probably close up due to lack of volume.
So, again IMO, there is reason for concern here.
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- My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef
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icenine
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 10:00am |
2/3 of all the coral you now see in your LFS would just vanish.
Bob, what are you basing this on?
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BobC63
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 10:04am |
It sounds like most of the common SPS and LPS found in stores will be affected.
But, admittedly, I just skimmed the article.
Am I off - base?
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- My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef
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Nails12
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 10:33am |
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I agree ice, some people do blow things out of proportion but IF it does pass, we would see it in out aquarium trade. No more hammer, frogspawn, torch even. Also a lot of the SPS is mostly acropora, if this was to happen it would take a lot away from the LFS's. It is just a concern. Although we are hobbyists we want the the ocean to thrive with life. Aquaculture should be the way to go. Even then if they were to allow just aquacultured specimens of acropora to be traded. It would have a great impact on LFS, as well as online vendors, just like bob said. These things can grow but can they grow fast enough to keep up with the hobby? I highly doubt it especially when they cant be harvested from the ocean anymore. People will be jumping on these faster than you can imagine.
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icenine
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 6:57am |
Overall, the agency wants to list 59 species in the Pacific — seven as endangered, 52 as threat- ened. In the Caribbean, it says five should be listed as endangered and two as threatened.More than 40 of the corals are in American Samoa waters. Three are in Hawaii waters, either around the main Hawaiian Islands or in the Pap- ahanaumokuakea Marine National Monument.
The folks saying that all Acropora and Euphyllia coming into the U.S market is what seems to be a cry of wolf.
Also, there are avenues open for aquaculture.
For endangered species, permits may be issued for scientific research, enhancement of propagation or survival, and taking that is incidental to an otherwise lawful activity.
For threatened species, permits also may be issued for zoological, horticultural, or botanical exhibition; educational use; and special purposes consistent with the ESA.
A person registered with the FWS may obtain a captive-bred wildlife permit to buy and sell within the United States live, non-native endangered or threatened animals that were captive born in the United States for enhancement of species propagation, provided the other person in the transaction is registered for the same species. A separate permit is needed to import or export such species. Captive-bred wildlife permits are not issued to keep or breed endangered or threatened animals as pets. Using protected species as pets is not consistent with the purposes of the ESA, which is aimed at conservation of the species and recovery of wild populations.
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BobC63
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 9:18am |
"Captive-bred wildlife permits are not issued to keep or breed endangered or threatened animals as pets. Using protected species as pets is not consistent with the purposes of the ESA, which is aimed at conservation of the species and recovery of wild populations."
Doesn't this say that even captive bred specimens will NOT be allowed to be bought, sold or even housed in a private home aquarium ('keep or breed as pets')?
And that a person would need to have (presumably purchase) a separate permit for each individual species of coral?
How can you say this would not drastically affect the hobby as we now know it?
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- My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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