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    Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:21pm
i have been battling ick for couple weeks in my tank. Have gotten a uv sterlizer and been feeding garlic continuesly. My engineer gobys have it the worse and then my clowns. I got some brine shrimp flake that has metronidazole in it. Has anyone had any luck with this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:32pm
Personally I don't believe just "managing" ich in a tank is the best way to go.  There's no reef-safe in-tank treatment.  You can manage it, but if anything goes out of whack, you're dealing with it again. 
 
Cryptocaryon irritans is a parasite, and without serious treatment will continue to persist.  Fish can build up an immunity to them, but it's not 100%, and any change in your tank can cause their immune system to drop & allow the parasites to take over.  Unfortunately, occasionally the parasites will attack the gills before the rest of the fish, so by the time you notice, the fish will be nearly gone. 
 
IMO the best thing to do is to remove all fish and treat the right way once...and not worry about it again.  Place all fish in an established QT tank and treat with hyposalinity or copper (be careful with both treatments...but especially copper).  During the treatment, let the main tank run fallow.  If properly done, you won't have to worry about your main tank getting ich...which is a huge relief.  If you need more help on treatments and/or setting up a QT tank, let me know! 
 
If you absolutely can't treat outside the tank, then managing is the best you can do.  Make sure all parameters stay as stable as possible.  Feed a variety of foods enriched with garlic.  You might want to even try a cleaner shrimp (but the fish will just get reinfected until their immune systems build back up).  Just hope for the best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BnK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:37pm
Yea I got a quarintine tank downstairs right now cuz ick took out a good number of my fish down there. Im treating with copper which seems they are doin better now even though I lost the weaker ones. I dont know if I can catch my fish in my reef tank with all the rock. But will prolly try the night method tonight. The clowns have been off and on with it but my gobys seem to be gettin the worse of it. When my tank downstairs is done goin through the process I am moving everything down there(will be couple more weeks).Since I lost all my aggresive fish, its not aggressive no more. Do coral carry ick also?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:47pm

Just curious, but why did you choose copper over hyposalinity?  I've had great success with hypo - seems a lot more gentle on the fish.  It slows their metabolism/energy level, so they aren't as stressed and can focus more on healing.  The fish also don't have to expend as much energy regulating the osmotic pressure difference.  It takes about 6 weeks to go through, but that's about how long your main tank should be fallow anyway. 

Corals can have ich present on them, but they don't really "carry" it.  In certain life stages, the ich go to live on the sandbed to reinfect the fish at night while they sleep.  Thus, the coral could have ich present on them.  I QT all my corals in a fish-free setup to prevent reinfestation with ich.  Keep in mind, it's a low probability, but it is a possibility.  I'm a bit psychotic when it comes to QT (and so I don't have any issues with AEFW, red bugs, bubble algae, byropsis, etc), but there's a point we all need to reach with QT...and I think treating all fish for ich is one of those goals. 
 
There's a big misconception that every tank has ich, and it's just something we all have to deal with occassionally.  It's not...it's a parasite...and like all parasites can be treated. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BnK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 2:15pm
I dont know alot about hypo and seen so many talk about copper. I may try it next time though to see how it works. I am deffinatly using a QT tank for now on. Since I am sure were the ick came from. When I transfer all my stuff should I quarintine the fish and corals and let the rock sit in the tank for a few weeks before transfering all of it? or could I just pull all of my fish out and leave everything else sit in the tank for a few weeks? Since I read without fish it usually dies off?
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couldnt get the best of the engineer goby

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Reef'd Up Reef'd Up wrote:

Just curious, but why did you choose copper over hyposalinity?  I've had great success with hypo - seems a lot more gentle on the fish.  It slows their metabolism/energy level, so they aren't as stressed and can focus more on healing.  The fish also don't have to expend as much energy regulating the osmotic pressure difference.  It takes about 6 weeks to go through, but that's about how long your main tank should be fallow anyway. 

Corals can have ich present on them, but they don't really "carry" it.  In certain life stages, the ich go to live on the sandbed to reinfect the fish at night while they sleep.  Thus, the coral could have ich present on them.  I QT all my corals in a fish-free setup to prevent reinfestation with ich.  Keep in mind, it's a low probability, but it is a possibility.  I'm a bit psychotic when it comes to QT (and so I don't have any issues with AEFW, red bugs, bubble algae, byropsis, etc), but there's a point we all need to reach with QT...and I think treating all fish for ich is one of those goals. 
 
There's a big misconception that every tank has ich, and it's just something we all have to deal with occassionally.  It's not...it's a parasite...and like all parasites can be treated. 

Reef'd Up- Great reply.

BnK- You'll find copper does work, hyposalinity does too; it just works differently (it has more to do with invertebrates inability to regulate their osmotic pressure.) You will want to avoid putting flakes with metronidazole into your display, as it is not safe for inverts, corals, etc.

I'm almost done building our large QT system, when it's finished any club member who has a fish that needs treatment for Ich is more than welcome to drop them by.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BnK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:14pm
well that is great Ive only used it twice guess I wont use it anymore.Hopefully I wont have any problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:20pm
Put some fresh AC in there and you should be ok having only used it twice. Metronidazole works best for internal parasites, it doesn't do much with Ich. Copper/Formalin is IMO the best medication to use if you're medicating for Ich if Hyposalinity isn't an option. I would just make sure that they keep eating and are getting nutritious foods. 9 times out of 10 if a fish keeps eating it will beat Ich. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BnK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:26pm
ok yea they eat real good all the fish do so hopefully it will be enough. But like I said guess if it comes down to it when I transfer it all I can catch them and treat them in the copper tank.
thanx for the help guys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:27pm
You can leave the corals & rock in your main display - just take all the fish out to QT.  Corals and rock don't need fish to live (I went about 1.5 years without fish in my tank after losing them all to ich.)  Since there won't be any fish for the ich to infect in the main display, the ich will die naturally without treatment in the display. 
 
There's nothing wrong with copper treatments for ich (except with certain fish).  I just prefer hypo as it seems to be easier on the fish (less fish death).  But, you HAVE to have a quality refractometer that is properly calibrated.  If you don't have that, stick with copper & a good copper treatment. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 5:56pm
Leaving the tank without fish for 1.5 years? I'm curious to know what all was in the tank during that time? May we see some pics?
You sound like a very responsible hobbyist.
What steps do you take to ensure that no Ich Parasite re-enters the tank?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 5:58pm
I would add....be safe and go 8 weeks with the display being fallow....I did 6 weeks one time, put all the fish back in and boom, ich hit again.....



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BnK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 6:15pm
wow even after 6 weeks?
I got a uv sterlizer running in there so hope that helps things
I also have a queen contch and snails do they carry ich?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Leaving the tank without fish for 1.5 years? I'm curious to know what all was in the tank during that time? May we see some pics?
You sound like a very responsible hobbyist.
What steps do you take to ensure that no Ich Parasite re-enters the tank?
Hm, I'll try to dig up some photos of the tank from back then...it was my little 40g guy.  There were definitely a lot of SPS...not sure beyond that.  I will say though, I fed regularly just like I was feeding fish. 
 
I'll also post up my QT process later...I have a very length detailed process that differs for fish/corals.
 
Bnk - same thing goes for snails/conchs as for coral.  They're in the tank with the ich present.  It's a very small likelihood that some ich got on the snails, etc, but it is possible.  If you leave them in a fallow tank for the entire length of time, they'll be fine.  However, they WILL NOT survive hyposalinity or copper treatments!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BnK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2011 at 6:28pm
ok was gonna moce the conch to my other tank but will just leave her. thanx for all the help will look forward to your post on your QT process also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2011 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Reef'd Up Reef'd Up wrote:

There's a big misconception that every tank has ich, and it's just something we all have to deal with occassionally.  It's not...it's a parasite...and like all parasites can be treated. 
The deal is, you may the only hobbyist that does what it takes to keep the parasite out. As you have said, the critter can come back in a drop of water clinging on anything. Hobbyists just aren't that careful. So we pretty much figure that all tanks have the parasite, except maybe yours. Smile


The way to keep Ich from becoming a problem has everything to do with good husbandry techniques and reefkeeping tips. Most hobbyists have been in the hobby around a year, which in my experience is not enough time to learn enough about good husbandry. From what you have said about the stores and hobbyists in your area, I imagine you would agree with that.

I believe that things are a little different in our area, mainly because of this club and it's forum. Hobbyists that frequent this forum come up to speed a lot quicker in their understanding of what it takes to make a healthy reef. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninja_brandon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 10:19am
Quick question.  What is the life cycle for ICK?  If your fish manage to fight it off can the ICK eventually dissipated from your tank after a certain amount of time or do they continually live within the fish forever only suppressed by the immune system until something else occurs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BnK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 11:15am
I found this link to help understand a little better seems pretty informative

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626
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Edited by fyrmn14 - May 13 2011 at 3:37am
This isn't a hobby...its a sport...they should put it in the olympics.
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