Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Topic: ick Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:21pm |
i have been battling ick for couple weeks in my tank. Have gotten a uv sterlizer and been feeding garlic continuesly. My engineer gobys have it the worse and then my clowns. I got some brine shrimp flake that has metronidazole in it. Has anyone had any luck with this?
|
|
 |
ReefdUp
Guest
Joined: March 20 2011
Location: South Weber
Status: Offline
Points: 4166
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:32pm |
Personally I don't believe just "managing" ich in a tank is the best way to go. There's no reef-safe in-tank treatment. You can manage it, but if anything goes out of whack, you're dealing with it again.
Cryptocaryon irritans is a parasite, and without serious treatment will continue to persist. Fish can build up an immunity to them, but it's not 100%, and any change in your tank can cause their immune system to drop & allow the parasites to take over. Unfortunately, occasionally the parasites will attack the gills before the rest of the fish, so by the time you notice, the fish will be nearly gone.
IMO the best thing to do is to remove all fish and treat the right way once...and not worry about it again. Place all fish in an established QT tank and treat with hyposalinity or copper (be careful with both treatments...but especially copper). During the treatment, let the main tank run fallow. If properly done, you won't have to worry about your main tank getting ich...which is a huge relief. If you need more help on treatments and/or setting up a QT tank, let me know!
If you absolutely can't treat outside the tank, then managing is the best you can do. Make sure all parameters stay as stable as possible. Feed a variety of foods enriched with garlic. You might want to even try a cleaner shrimp (but the fish will just get reinfected until their immune systems build back up). Just hope for the best.
|
www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:37pm |
Yea I got a quarintine tank downstairs right now cuz ick took out a good number of my fish down there. Im treating with copper which seems they are doin better now even though I lost the weaker ones. I dont know if I can catch my fish in my reef tank with all the rock. But will prolly try the night method tonight. The clowns have been off and on with it but my gobys seem to be gettin the worse of it. When my tank downstairs is done goin through the process I am moving everything down there(will be couple more weeks).Since I lost all my aggresive fish, its not aggressive no more. Do coral carry ick also?
|
|
 |
ReefdUp
Guest
Joined: March 20 2011
Location: South Weber
Status: Offline
Points: 4166
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 1:47pm |
Just curious, but why did you choose copper over hyposalinity? I've had great success with hypo - seems a lot more gentle on the fish. It slows their metabolism/energy level, so they aren't as stressed and can focus more on healing. The fish also don't have to expend as much energy regulating the osmotic pressure difference. It takes about 6 weeks to go through, but that's about how long your main tank should be fallow anyway.
Corals can have ich present on them, but they don't really "carry" it. In certain life stages, the ich go to live on the sandbed to reinfect the fish at night while they sleep. Thus, the coral could have ich present on them. I QT all my corals in a fish-free setup to prevent reinfestation with ich. Keep in mind, it's a low probability, but it is a possibility. I'm a bit psychotic when it comes to QT (and so I don't have any issues with AEFW, red bugs, bubble algae, byropsis, etc), but there's a point we all need to reach with QT...and I think treating all fish for ich is one of those goals.
There's a big misconception that every tank has ich, and it's just something we all have to deal with occassionally. It's not...it's a parasite...and like all parasites can be treated.
|
www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 2:15pm |
I dont know alot about hypo and seen so many talk about copper. I may try it next time though to see how it works. I am deffinatly using a QT tank for now on. Since I am sure were the ick came from. When I transfer all my stuff should I quarintine the fish and corals and let the rock sit in the tank for a few weeks before transfering all of it? or could I just pull all of my fish out and leave everything else sit in the tank for a few weeks? Since I read without fish it usually dies off?
|
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 2:24pm |
couldnt get the best of the engineer goby
|
|
 |
CapnMorgan
Guest
The Capn'
Joined: August 19 2009
Location: Tooele
Status: Offline
Points: 3537
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:09pm |
Reef'd Up wrote:
Just curious, but why did you choose copper over hyposalinity? I've had great success with hypo - seems a lot more gentle on the fish. It slows their metabolism/energy level, so they aren't as stressed and can focus more on healing. The fish also don't have to expend as much energy regulating the osmotic pressure difference. It takes about 6 weeks to go through, but that's about how long your main tank should be fallow anyway.
Corals can have ich present on them, but they don't really "carry" it. In certain life stages, the ich go to live on the sandbed to reinfect the fish at night while they sleep. Thus, the coral could have ich present on them. I QT all my corals in a fish-free setup to prevent reinfestation with ich. Keep in mind, it's a low probability, but it is a possibility. I'm a bit psychotic when it comes to QT (and so I don't have any issues with AEFW, red bugs, bubble algae, byropsis, etc), but there's a point we all need to reach with QT...and I think treating all fish for ich is one of those goals.
There's a big misconception that every tank has ich, and it's just something we all have to deal with occassionally. It's not...it's a parasite...and like all parasites can be treated. |
Reef'd Up- Great reply.
BnK- You'll find copper does work, hyposalinity does too; it just works differently (it has more to do with invertebrates inability to regulate their osmotic pressure.) You will want to avoid putting flakes with metronidazole into your display, as it is not safe for inverts, corals, etc.
I'm almost done building our large QT system, when it's finished any club member who has a fish that needs treatment for Ich is more than welcome to drop them by.
|
Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:14pm |
well that is great Ive only used it twice guess I wont use it anymore.Hopefully I wont have any problems
|
|
 |
CapnMorgan
Guest
The Capn'
Joined: August 19 2009
Location: Tooele
Status: Offline
Points: 3537
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:20pm |
Put some fresh AC in there and you should be ok having only used it twice. Metronidazole works best for internal parasites, it doesn't do much with Ich. Copper/Formalin is IMO the best medication to use if you're medicating for Ich if Hyposalinity isn't an option. I would just make sure that they keep eating and are getting nutritious foods. 9 times out of 10 if a fish keeps eating it will beat Ich.
|
Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:26pm |
ok yea they eat real good all the fish do so hopefully it will be enough. But like I said guess if it comes down to it when I transfer it all I can catch them and treat them in the copper tank.
thanx for the help guys
|
|
 |
ReefdUp
Guest
Joined: March 20 2011
Location: South Weber
Status: Offline
Points: 4166
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 3:27pm |
You can leave the corals & rock in your main display - just take all the fish out to QT. Corals and rock don't need fish to live (I went about 1.5 years without fish in my tank after losing them all to ich.) Since there won't be any fish for the ich to infect in the main display, the ich will die naturally without treatment in the display.
There's nothing wrong with copper treatments for ich (except with certain fish). I just prefer hypo as it seems to be easier on the fish (less fish death). But, you HAVE to have a quality refractometer that is properly calibrated. If you don't have that, stick with copper & a good copper treatment.
|
www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water
|
 |
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 5:56pm |
Leaving the tank without fish for 1.5 years? I'm curious to know what all was in the tank during that time? May we see some pics? You sound like a very responsible hobbyist. What steps do you take to ensure that no Ich Parasite re-enters the tank?
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
 |
bur01014
Guest
Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 5:58pm |
I would add....be safe and go 8 weeks with the display being fallow....I did 6 weeks one time, put all the fish back in and boom, ich hit again.....
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 6:15pm |
wow even after 6 weeks?
I got a uv sterlizer running in there so hope that helps things
I also have a queen contch and snails do they carry ich?
|
|
 |
ReefdUp
Guest
Joined: March 20 2011
Location: South Weber
Status: Offline
Points: 4166
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 6:20pm |
Mark Peterson wrote:
Leaving the tank without fish for 1.5 years? I'm curious to know what all was in the tank during that time? May we see some pics? You sound like a very responsible hobbyist. What steps do you take to ensure that no Ich Parasite re-enters the tank?
|
Hm, I'll try to dig up some photos of the tank from back then...it was my little 40g guy. There were definitely a lot of SPS...not sure beyond that. I will say though, I fed regularly just like I was feeding fish.
I'll also post up my QT process later...I have a very length detailed process that differs for fish/corals.
Bnk - same thing goes for snails/conchs as for coral. They're in the tank with the ich present. It's a very small likelihood that some ich got on the snails, etc, but it is possible. If you leave them in a fallow tank for the entire length of time, they'll be fine. However, they WILL NOT survive hyposalinity or copper treatments!!
|
www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 08 2011 at 6:28pm |
ok was gonna moce the conch to my other tank but will just leave her. thanx for all the help will look forward to your post on your QT process also.
|
|
 |
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 10 2011 at 6:50pm |
Reef'd Up wrote:
There's a big misconception that every tank has ich, and it's just something we all have to deal with occassionally. It's not...it's a parasite...and like all parasites can be treated. |
The deal is, you may the only hobbyist that does what it takes to keep the parasite out. As you have said, the critter can come back in a drop of water clinging on anything. Hobbyists just aren't that careful. So we pretty much figure that all tanks have the parasite, except maybe yours.  The way to keep Ich from becoming a problem has everything to do with good husbandry techniques and reefkeeping tips. Most hobbyists have been in the hobby around a year, which in my experience is not enough time to learn enough about good husbandry. From what you have said about the stores and hobbyists in your area, I imagine you would agree with that. I believe that things are a little different in our area, mainly because of this club and it's forum. Hobbyists that frequent this forum come up to speed a lot quicker in their understanding of what it takes to make a healthy reef.
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
 |
ninja_brandon
Guest
Joined: January 29 2009
Location: Salt Lake City
Status: Offline
Points: 260
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 11 2011 at 10:19am |
Quick question. What is the life cycle for ICK? If your fish manage to fight it off can the ICK eventually dissipated from your tank after a certain amount of time or do they continually live within the fish forever only suppressed by the immune system until something else occurs?
|
 |
BnK
Guest
Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 11 2011 at 11:15am |
I found this link to help understand a little better seems pretty informative
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626
|
|
 |
fyrmn14
Guest
Joined: June 23 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 208
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: May 13 2011 at 3:28am |
Edited by fyrmn14 - May 13 2011 at 3:37am
|
This isn't a hobby...its a sport...they should put it in the olympics.
|
 |