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Ryan Thompson 
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 Topic: Sand or No Sand?
Posted: February 23 2011 at 1:15pm |
Well my 7.5 gallon is coming together nicely.
Right now I am trying to decide between going with a very shallow sand bed or no sand at all.
I have been following EcoReef One from Reef Builders and really like how it is going. Too bad I missed talking to Jake Adams all about his tank last week.
Anyways I have always run sand in my tanks and like it but on this small of a tank, I don't see the sand having a huge benefit. I will be doing 50% water changes every 2 weeks to help with nutrients and I hope to not dose all that often. I need a very easy and simple tank.
With no sand, it is very easy to just suck out the built up and not worry about a sand bed building up detritus.
I plan to have one maybe two fish. I would love a Yasha Goby but they can be hard to find and expensive.
I am not using LR either!  I am using VidaRock from CeramEco.
What does everyone think?
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badfinger
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 1:20pm |
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i persoanlly like the look of sandbeds, and i think that they will help in any tank. but then again as you said without a sandbed you can see all the detritus and just suck it out... so your call, but i would do a shallow sandbed
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jwoo
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 1:34pm |
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I'd so a shallow sandbed. I think no sand can look cool, but after a while you'll just have a purple bottom that looks weird.
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None at the moment
Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront
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Luckedout
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 1:40pm |
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I agree with Jwoo. Maybe it's not beneficial but it looks a lot better.
I saw a tank build on RC where the guy epoxied a very thin layer of sand to the bottom of his tank to get the sand look, but essentially it's like a bare bottom tank.
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-Ben
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Jeffs_little_ocean
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 1:48pm |
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I feel bad for your 1 or 2 little fish. No sand, no LR. That would be like living in a jail cell. Maybe you can find a little fishy straightjacket too?
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Life is good....right?
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WhiteReef
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 2:09pm |
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The sand does act as a bio-filter so it does have a benefit. However, if it were me I would go with sand on the bottom, it just looks more natural and esthetically pleasing, and there are some critters that will only survive properly if there is a sand bed. If you want a minimal sand bed then go with the smallest diameter sand you can find like the Utah sand.
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna
20" x 18" x 31"H
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 2:40pm |
 jwoo wrote:
I'd so a shallow sandbed. I think no sand can look cool, but after a while you'll just have a purple bottom that looks weird. |
Not if the bottom is covered in Ricordea mushrooms or zoanthids 
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JB
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 2:43pm |
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I am by no means a expert in this hobby, but I figured a shallow sandbed was better than no sandbed.
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If not for construction, where would we be?
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 2:44pm |
Jeffs_little_ocean wrote:
I feel bad for your 1 or 2 little fish. No sand, no LR. That would be like living in a jail cell. Maybe you can find a little fishy straightjacket too? |
Have one on the way actually!
The rock will become LR once I add the bacteria into the tank and seed everything.
LR isn't as great as people make it out IMO. It has to be ripped from the ocean, everything dies, goes into our tanks and is made live again.
I am using synthetic rock that can be shaped however I want and trust me, in a 12x12 cube, stacking rocks isn't easy or pleasing to my eye.
This tank has a goal of being very low maintenance and very low impact on nature. Low energy usage, aqua cultured corals and hopefully tank bred fish.
The fish is the hard part though.
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SGH360
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 3:20pm |
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if you can have zoas in the glass that will be cool, personally i dont like naked bottom, sand or zoas thats my opinion
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bur01014
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 3:52pm |
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It depends on what you are trying to keep.....for a SPS dominant tank, or if you are planning to have a ton of flow....no sand, this allows for maximum flow for SPS corals, without blowing sand everywhere.....mixed reef, thin layer of sand for looks....
One thing to think about, it is much easier to add sand later if you decide, then take it out later....go bare bottom, then add sand later if you are displeased.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 4:21pm |
I agree with everyone that sand looks better. I think it does too.
On such a small tank though, I have just been questioning if it is worth losing a real estate for sand.
I guess to really understand my question and why I can't decide what to do, check out this link to the EcoReef One tank that I mentioned earlier. I think that Jake Adams has some very good points for these smaller tanks.
I would support the rock off the bottom with some frag plugs and let the flow go through the whole tank.
The nice thing is that I will only have my heater and the internal filter in the tank. No extra powerheads unless I feel that my Vortech MP10 is needed.
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Jeremyw
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 4:35pm |
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WOW are you going to do 100 % water changes? That is wild!
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 4:54pm |
disneymania wrote:
WOW are you going to do 100 % water changes? That is wild! |
Maybe every once in a while but I will go more for 50% changes every other week.
I am really excited for this tank. I went to CeramEco today and they are building me a structure for this tank. It should turn out really cool! They also gave me a free piece that I will probably break up and use for a zoanthid or ricordea garden.
Maybe I should start a build thread? 
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jwoo
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 4:57pm |
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Start a build thread as soon as you can. I think this is a sweet idea now that I've read the link you posted.
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None at the moment
Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront
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bfessler
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Posted: February 23 2011 at 7:37pm |
Hi Ryan,
Talk to Mark at CeramEco about doing a VidaRock floor for the tank. It will look more natural than a glass bottom, increase your bio filtration and give you a nice place to put all the corals you want in the tank. They do a thin rock for back walls and overflows and you could just have a single piece made to fit the exact size of the bottom of your tank. I am thinking about doing this on a small all in one I am designing for the summer sometime. If you go to Marine Aquatics there is a tank in the Lobby behind the register with some pieces he made for me that I mounted on the back glass just picture something similar on the bottom.
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Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected]
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: February 24 2011 at 10:20am |
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You may not see it, but I do. It is amazing and mildly humorous how this hobby goes around and around every few years. I believe it's because the hobby is made up of 90% new hobbyists that have not seen what has been before.
As I began reading this post (I just got to it) I knew that if you do a no sand tank you will have higher maintenance, not lower maintenance. I consider water changes as maintenance. A no LS, no LR tank requires larger, more frequent water changes. Coral growing on the bottom becomes a trap for detritus which has no adequate method of decomposition. The bottom area requires frequent cleaning and detritus removal.
Vida Rock by itself is inadequate filtration, partly because it is inert and partly because it's porosity is so consistently dense. It depends on other sources of biofiltration or water changes.
Jake Adams makes a point of how he is breaking some kind of "laws" of reefkeeping. That's just hype. He has broken no "laws" at all. He has just replaced the common reef tank with a 100% water change tank. It just goes to show that there are a plethora of ways to do a reef tank in the short term. (the tank was only 6 mos old when he wrote the article.)
The biggest key to the lowest maintenance tank is minimal or preferably, absolutely no fish.
Ryan,
Please feel free to come visit and chat, while looking at my minimal maintenance 10 gal nano.
Mark
Edited by Mark Peterson - February 24 2011 at 10:34am
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: February 24 2011 at 10:58am |
Mark Peterson wrote:
You may not see it, but I do. It is amazing and mildly humorous how this hobby goes around and around every few years. I believe it's because the hobby is made up of 90% new hobbyists that have not seen what has been before.
As I began reading this post (I just got to it) I knew that if you do a no sand tank you will have higher maintenance, not lower maintenance. I consider water changes as maintenance. A no LS, no LR tank requires larger, more frequent water changes. Coral growing on the bottom becomes a trap for detritus which has no adequate method of decomposition. The bottom area requires frequent cleaning and detritus removal.
Vida Rock by itself is inadequate filtration, partly because it is inert and partly because it's porosity is so consistently dense. It depends on other sources of biofiltration or water changes.
Jake Adams makes a point of how he is breaking some kind of "laws" of reefkeeping. That's just hype. He has broken no "laws" at all. He has just replaced the common reef tank with a 100% water change tank. It just goes to show that there are a plethora of ways to do a reef tank in the short term. (the tank was only 6 mos old when he wrote the article.)
The biggest key to the lowest maintenance tank is minimal or preferably, absolutely no fish.
Ryan,
Please feel free to come visit and chat, while looking at my minimal maintenance 10 gal nano.
Mark
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While I agree with 99% of what you said, I don't agree that Vida Rock is inadequate filtration.
I used it in my 40 gallon and it had life galore on it. Coraline grew great, if not better, than the LR in the tank.
I am pretty sure I will go with a 1" sand bed at the most. Maybe even thinner. So if you have some good Utah Sand, I will gladly come buy some and look at your tank and chat.
I just can't get used to a totally bare bottom tank. The tank currently has FW in it as I test out the pump I got and the heater. Also wanted to make sure the tank could hold water.
I will call you when I have a chance to come over Mark. It will have to be some time next week or maybe Sunday if you are around.
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Jeremyw
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Posted: February 24 2011 at 11:01am |
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Ryan where did you get the tank at?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: February 24 2011 at 11:07am |
I still don't like the inert nature of Vida Rock. After all, it's a fired ceramic. I have lots of sand. 
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