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Kozak 
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 Topic: T5 vs MH vs PC vs VHO
Posted: April 12 2007 at 3:10am |
Hello, I think I'm confused,  ??? My basic understanding was that MH was for acro's plus everything else in the blue Ocean, PC and VHO for soft corals or supplemental lighting and T5 is for sump or supplemental lighting. Now I've seen a tank that has T5 High Output that has individual reflectors with happy Acro's in it and people at a fish stores tell me that T5 don't have the same range as MH's so the acro's wont survive very long under T5 HO. Is that true or is someone pulling my chain/leg? Can my old school understanding of light systems be chucked out the door as the new HO systems is doing what only MH could do before? Can someone shine some light on this for me,  ? Oh, I like the last sentence, maybe I should be a writer, J/K. I read stuff the sellers/builders claim but I don't think I can believe half of what they are saying because they contradict themselves and each other. So I would like to hear from the experienced consumers. Please help me understand this lighting subject better. thanks Alex
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Mike Savage
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 8:08am |
There are people on this board who are very successful growing acros and clams under MH, VHO, & T5 HO. Each of these can be a good choice depending on your preference. Depending on how many bulbs you have florescent should give you better coverage and more even lighting for your corals (few shadows.) MH being more of a point source of light will give you shimmer lines and some shadowing. This can make it easier to place corals with a wide variety of lighing requirements in an area of light they are happy with. I had 250 watt MH on my 120g with VHO supplements. My next tank will have T5s. YMMV
Mike
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shaggydoo
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 10:46am |
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I've kept acros under MH and t5. Can't speak for VHO, but both setups I've tried work well. I personally like t5 a lot better but there are pros and cons for both. Currently I run 8 t5's on my 120g and my sps couldn't be happier; well I'm sure they could, but not by adding more light ;)
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Kozak
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 11:14am |
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Thanks guys this helps a little bit but I'm still not completely clear. I have 175 gallon bow front. I got one 150 W HQI MH in the middle right where it bows out and 72 inch PC across the rest of the tank but I'm thinking of adding two more MH but before I do that I want to check out the T5's. How do you compare the two or how do you know how many T5's you need? For example what would be the equivalent of a 150 W HQI MH? Or can I even compare them that way? Do T5's penetrate as deep as MH? I have T5 for my sump, they are not the HO but my PC's seem much brighter than T5. From my understanding for the T5's to work they have to have individual reflectors, is this correct? What's a good place/store/website to check out the T5's? Can someone please give me some of the pro's and con's of T5's and MH. What's better T5 or PC? If we put individual reflectors on a PC would it out perform the T5? What do you guys think?
Shaggydoo, what type of T5's do you run? Do they have individual reflectors and is that the only light you have on your 120g?
Thanks for all your help guys.
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Rhine Lenhart
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 12:11pm |
you should have made it to Dana's presentation.
Get with adam and see if you can borrow his light meter.
Then i suggest getting more water flow VS Lighting.
I have grown Monti Digi under 4X65w PC's
This is JMO.
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ct79
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 12:51pm |
You can't really compare MH and T5's based on wattage. T5's run at a lower wattage. I don't know how many bulbs it would take to produce the same intensity as a 150w MH? Maybe someone can chime in on that one. I would think it is safe to say that T5's penetrate just as deep as MH. That is where the individual reflectors come into play. I have a clam that I keep on my sandbed and it is doing great and my tank is about 24 inches deep. I would never go with PC they are just not efficient. I'm not saying that they don't grow corals,just not that efficient and not as bright. Along with good reflectors, T5's also need to be cooled to work efficiently. So it is wise to look for a unit that has a fan. As for Pros and Cons, your power bill will definitely go down with T5's. You will get better coverage with T5's (no shadow spots like MH). T5 bulbs have a longer life span then MH. The bulbs will last you about 12-18 months. You will lose that "shimmer affect" you get with MH. With T5's you can mix and match your bulbs to get the best lighting to suit your eyes. People say that with T5's you get "pastel" like color from your corals but I just haven't seen that with my setup. I think my colors are rich and dark. Maybe my corals look a little pastel and I just don't know it. But I don't have any other T5 tanks out there to compare with. In all honesty, I think it really boils down to preference and how your eyes interperate colors. Because you can get a T5 unit that will grow corals just as well if not better than any MH setup. I have a 95g and I have an Aquactinics fixture. It has 5 bulbs with ind reflectors and runs at a total of 270 watts. I've had it for about 3-4 months and it has been working great. I have a mixed tank with more SPS and they growing pretty fast and seem to be loving the light as well. I think for your setup you can go with a 8 bulb setup and would do fine. You can go to premiumquatics.com or reefgeek.com for some fixtures. Sorry for the novel... 
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shaggydoo
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 12:56pm |
I have got 2 6.5k 2 10k 2 superblues and 2 superactinics. All are on their own individual tek reflectors. It is the only light I have on my 120g and I have plenty of light loving corals that are showing excellent growth. I moved most of my corals from under a 250w 10k double ended mh pendent in an 18G (I know a bit of light overkill but I had the equip so why not).
Most of my corals exhibited signs of light shock/bleaching under initial placement of the t5's.... they all got over it and look better than ever, but I have also noticed the intensity of my t5's has weakened over the first few months. This happens with all lighting types as they 'burn in', but I also do not have any fans running across my lighting and I know t5's especially put out more light when they are cooled down a bit... I do plan on hooking up some fans when I get some time.
Overall I chose t5 over mh because it is much cooler and more efficient. I saw my parents put in 2 250w de mh on their 90 g and they never stopped whining about their electric bill. So I looked for a cheaper option. Also in my last tank I was topping off a gallon a day, and in an 18g that was a bit extreme. Now with my much bigger tank I barely top off 2 gallons a day (some days only one gallon). If you want to come check out my setup give me a call Aaron 598-4060. I'm in west valley/west jordan (live on the border) area.
Edited by shaggydoo - April 12 2007 at 12:58pm
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ct79
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 1:10pm |
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What type of corals do you have under that light shaggy?
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shaggydoo
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Posted: April 12 2007 at 2:53pm |
I've got 20 or so different varieties of SPS (acros, montis, mille, and a few I'm unclear on), several LPS, and a dozen or so zoas with various other softies. Oh, and I just got a clam in the sandbed that looks good but is too new to call a success. Plus I have an imperator that hasn't bothered the clam yet but everyone tells me is going to eventually (I'm keeping my fingers crossed).
On a side note. One of the biggest benefits to t5 imo is the ability to mix and match bulbs. I like a whiter look to the tank so I put in half and half (blue to white). Others think this is not blue enough but it is extremely easy to change the bulb combo to more of a blue look. In fact I'm probably going to try more blue one day just to mix things up and see if I like the coloration.
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GARFVolunteer
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Posted: April 13 2007 at 2:12pm |
I am a huge fan of URI brand VHO and NO bulbs...
My tank in 2001 with URI NO lighting
The same tank in 2002 with half NO and half VHO run on tar NO and VHO ballasts. Images show 5 months of growth:
Thanks,
Scott
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President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society
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Mike Savage
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Posted: April 13 2007 at 10:44pm |
Cool. I was hoping you would see this post Scott.
Mike
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Rod M.
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Posted: April 20 2007 at 12:31pm |
I've been doing a little studying and research on T5s and CFs.
A 55/65 watt compact fluorescent lamp is the same as a T5 lamp. The CF is just bent over to fit in a smaller fixture package, ie, in a 2'x'2 fixture, you could get 8 55/65 CFs.
The output in lumens for four CFs or T5s is roughly the same as one 250w MH, depending on the type and style of reflectors used. I found a commercial company that claims that a2'x2' - 8 lamp CF fixture puts out the same light as a 2'x2'- 1 - 400 watt lamp MH. The overall effiecency and savings of the CF fixture beats the MH, but maintenence cost may be more with CFs. (Depends on the life of the lamp)
If you look at the nomemclature on a Universal T5 ballast, along with the T5 lamp it shows it will run an FT55w/ 2G11 lamp. FT designates bent tube, 2G11 is a straight 4 pin socket. The type of bulbs we use ( 10k,12k ,actinic, etc) , are specific to our hobby, however the ballasts and sockets are not!
Hope this helps,
Edited by Rod M. - April 20 2007 at 12:32pm
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Rod Murri
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bbeck4x4
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Posted: April 20 2007 at 5:21pm |
now compare the price of four compact fluorescents to the price of one metal halide? what is the amp draw of 4 CF lamps? amp draw of one 250 watt magnetic ballast is 2.5 amps when I last added those numbers up I went with MH lamps, For me they were cheaper to purchase and cheaper to run, now I did DIY for one of the ballasts and for one fixture. If one was to purchase the fixture that may change the purchase numbers. I am interested in running VHO for my atintic lamps though, I believe that the light quality from a VHO lamp would be beneficial for the corals. I am running one 55 watt CF for that function right now. (PM me if anyone has any extra 48 VHO ballasts around, maybe we could do a trade or something?) oh and to be fair we need to be looking at the lumen output also. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature2
Edited by bbeck4x4 - April 20 2007 at 5:28pm
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Mike Savage
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Posted: April 20 2007 at 6:35pm |
I believe the tube diameter on CF tubes is larger than on a T5 also since the CF is bent so the tubes are close together the reflectors are not as efficient at reflecting the light down to the tank. It is also my understanding that CF produce more heat than T5HO. RedSea produce special 55 watt T5CF that have the same diameter as T5s.
Mike
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Rod M.
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Posted: April 20 2007 at 8:01pm |
Yep.
The amp draw of four FT55W is 1.87a. 4 T5s at 2.01.
I could never find any info comparing MH side by side with either T5 or CF for output. The comparison I did find was not actual numbers, but sales statements by manufacturers. However, I went to several lamp manufacturing sites and flipped through spec sheets to check.
GE has a salt water CF listed at a mean lumens of 4080. multiply by 4 = 16320.
When we add the cost of running a chiller or AC to reduce the heat from a MH how would T5/CF compare?
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Rod Murri
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bbeck4x4
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Posted: April 20 2007 at 9:56pm |
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in Utah all we need is a fan and we get the swamp cooler effect, so cooling is no big deal,
lamp price was the killer for me,
best 55 w cf price was 35 X 4 = 135 or so
mh I guess you could spend that much on a bulb, but one MH was 65
20,500 Lumens for a 250 watt se bulb. @ approx 10k
as far as heat 200 watts of any light is going to produce heat at about some % of that light, I have burned my hands on many a t8 lamp removing it, now for that MH there is no way I would try until it cooled down, but as far as how much heat MH produces vs CF I don't know the answer to that one.
Edited by bbeck4x4 - April 20 2007 at 9:58pm
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Rod M.
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 7:53am |
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Aquatraders online is selling CFs at great prices! I ordered 4 to get them for under $10. With shipping it was around $13 per lamp. Ordered them on Friday, got here Wed. No problems.
Edited by Rod M. - April 21 2007 at 7:54am
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Rod Murri
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Dion Richins
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 11:14am |
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I prefer vho personally. My 120 runs 4 110w vho's but no acros. Everything does well. My 125 has 4 110w vho and 3 175w mh. I grow everything I want with out any issues.
Edited by Holdencraft 33 - April 21 2007 at 11:15am
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Mike Savage
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 12:47pm |
Dion, why do you prefer VHO?
Mike
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Dion Richins
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 1:03pm |
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Cost, Light, Trust. Ive ran pc for years, even with MH. I have a t5 set over my 75 and ended up supplementing with pc. I don't like the t5 at all. Its dull and does not have much penetration IMO. It is 3-4 years old and I'm sure technology has come a long way. I still want the shimmer on my reef tank and the sps's don't mind, so it has the MH. I run actinic white and super actinic bulbs and much prefer the look.
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