where to buy metal halides?
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Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: This is the place to ask question about reef equipment.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=995
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Topic: where to buy metal halides?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: where to buy metal halides?
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 7:21pm
| I went on the reef tour last saturday, and realized that I loved the look of the mh. I already have 4 55 Watt pc on my 90 gal tank. So, I went to MSM and talked to Randy who said to get dual 175 Watt 10k with a pfo ballast, since the 250's will make the tank too hot. He was selling the whole kit with bulbs for $500. The 250 Watt kits were cheaper, about $480. I was also wondering if anyone new about the double ended metal halide bulbs and whether they're worth the extra money? Plus, I noticed in the reef tour manual that members get 10% off to many local fish stores, can anyone tell me more about this? |
Replies:
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 7:48pm
|
cpearce,
There are only a couple stores that give discounts to WMAS members. The Pet Factory, From the Sea, and Fish-4-U is all that I know of. I like double-ended MH bulbs because that's what Spacelights come with. I like Spacelights for the look of the entire system. Plus, you don't have to buy a canopy when you gt a Spacelight. I have had mogul style MH bulbs and they have worked out great also. Its up to you. Marcus |
Posted By: rfoote
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 8:00pm
|
I know that I will probably get flamed for this, but oh well. I always try to support our LFS, however when your talking a large difference in $ I have to look at my bottom dollar as well. I have had great success ordering lighting from this ebay user - http://www.stores.ebay.com/id=59124096&ssPageName=L2 - ATOTLAMPS - They sell top of the line equipment at very reduced prices. I bought my most recent Ushio 250 W 10k bulbs for $67 a piece and have been very pleased.
I don't know enough to reply confidently in regards to the difference in heat displacement between the two. I'm sure others will know though. |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 8:04pm
|
Hellolights.com has great deals on bulbs aswell xm 250w 20k for $60 a bulb ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: tankrose
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 8:50pm
| I have been thinking about replacing my MH with the xm 20k. Does it give the tank a really blue look? |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 9:24pm
| 20k Kelvin halides from any manufacturer give off a blue look. Think about what corals that you want to keep before you pick out the color spectrum of the bulb that you want. For instance, a lot of acro's live very close to the surface in the ocean, therefore they are more accustomed to a yellower bulb like a 6500 Kelvin. Corals that are found at deaper depths may prefer a bluer bulb. Do some research before you buy because halides are a big investment. Ryan Williams (Scroll) has a Spacelight with one 20k Kelvin 175 watt HQI MH and 2 10K Kelvin 250 watt HQI MH bulbs. Maybe he could give some input on the difference in color. The Spacelight bulbs are made by Aqualine Busch who owns Aqua Medic and Spacelight. |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 9:26pm
|
The Xm 250w 20k bulb in about 2 weeks burns into about a 16k bulb specs from the factory, They Look Great !!!! ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 10:58pm
I can't resist posting these images I scanned from a Jacque Cousteau book a few years ago. They are so applicable to the topic.
I believe these are in an article about lighting in one of the Sea Star newsletters online (button to the left)but in case you haven't gotten to that issue here they are in graphic reality! When the longer wavelengths of the visible spectrum are absorbed by the water, everything turns quickly to black and blue! ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
|
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 12:35am
|
I would say that the hqi bulbs I like much better they take up less room and are about sixes in price. I had the choice in lighting and I went with a space light because it was the cheapest by compairason and had electronic ballast not coil.
example non HQI aprox prices electronic ballasts with soc and ref $200 each *3 bulbs $080 each *3 canopy non petco brand $350 total is about $1190 spacelights rang anywhere from $900 to $1200 so it was a clear choice for me what way to go and going with the spacelights I was able to HQI wich I am very happy with. and as far as internet shoping goes I like to buy local due to warenty purposes. if it breaks I don't have to do all the running around. also when I ask questions in the stores I belive they are more eager to help me because I am not just wasting their time to just turn around and buy it somewhere else. If we don't support the stores then they make no mony and all of the people we relly on for advice will not be around. imo you are also more than wellcome to come check the lights out I have above my tanks I have both types of Halide. Ryan 897-2000 ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: Kevin
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 6:39am
| I have 2 250 Watts over my 70 gallon and it doesn't seem to keep it overly hot. During the summer it did get a little warm at about a top of 83 degrees but that was partly because my house was hot. I like the 250s but I haven't used anything else so, whatever you want. |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 8:41am
|
If you're looking to buy a mh system, shop on-line. I'm all for supporting the LFS, but not at double the price. Most warranty claims can be handled via phone if necessary.
If the guys at the LFS think you're "wasting their time" by asking questions - then they deserve to have you buy from another store. That's why I miss Petland. Chris would talk to me for 1/2 hour about my tank and new ideas or whatever. Even if I didn't buy anything - he still thanked me for coming in. I never felt that I was wasting his time. Once in awhile he would ask my opinion of something - product or livestock. He never had the attitude that he somehow knew more than I did because he ran the LFS. The pet store guys have to learn customer service. Especially with the big stores getting into selling salt stuff. They've got to win customer loyalty with their service - because they can't compete with prices! Just my $.02 (again) |
Posted By: tomason
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 8:46am
|
The Reef Tour really sold me on MH lighting too!
I've noticed that 250W ballasts are cheaper than 175W ones. Is the 175W more of a specialty ballast? As for the double-ended MH bulbs (DE bulbs on most forums), I've been doing a lot of research on that these past couple of days. For equivalent wattage, they're much brighter than single-ended (SE) bulbs. If you're interested, look at these 2 articles: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...003/feature.htm http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...003/feature.htm Essentially, 250W DE's produce nearly the same PAR as 400W SE's for 37% less energy consumption. The 400W SE's distributed the light more evenly though. Many DE users put a VHO aquasun bulb across their tanks too to help with the shadows. Pros and cons! I haven't made my decision yet, but those 250W DE's sure look good! -Tom |
Posted By: mdawson8931
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 9:17am
|
I just converted my 45gal to MH's from 204watts of PC's. At first I installed 1 250watt 10k (I think it was a 10k, help me out here marcus its your old one) MH thinking that would work but it just didnt provide the coverage, it was a tad dark on either end of the tank, plus it was right over the tank brace and cast a definate shadow, the plus there was that the color was just perfect in my opinion.(it melted the crap out of the brace though). Second go round, less than a week later, I installed 2 175watt 12k's and am happy with them. They are alot bluer than I had in PC's and the 250watt MH and are taking longer to get use to but look nice all the same. To be honest I'm getting the 10k's when I replace the bulbs in a month. Anyways, just one mans trek to find the light at the end of the tunnel. Your milage may vary and your more than welcome to check out my tank if your up north. ------------- Mike Layton, Ut. |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 11:17pm
|
Shane,
1. If you have had good luck doing over-the-phone warranty work with an internet company, I think you are in the minority. 2. I know something about this since I have worked at a couple different LFS. Its not that LFS think customers are wasting their time as much as they could be helping someone who is going to spend money and help put food on the table. 3. Didn't Petland go out of business? I wonder why... 4. I think you will have a hard time finding an internet company who is willing to draw diagrams and spend extended periods of time instructing customers how to wire things and so forth. If you do not need this help, then it sounds like internet shopping may be for you. But I do not think it is for everyone. |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 8:30am
|
Marcus,
This is a topic that has been debated many times. And you're right about some companies. I try to do business with reputable on-line businesses. In many cases their warranty claims are much easier than the LFS. I make a call, I get service. A lot of the times, I'm calling the same guy the LFS is calling. That is one problem I have with (some) LFS is their air of superiority they have when it comes to on-line shops. They advertise that because they are local, they are more reputable and will stand behind the products they sell and the on-line shops will not. My experience has shown that often times it is exactly the opposite. Ever been to a local shop that doesn't have a big sign indicating "no guarantee on salt water" - yet most reputable on-line places will make some guarantee. Somehow it has become a question of my integrity rather than my wallet if I don't support the local guy that is charging me double the price. I've listened to several LFS owners complain that they can't compete with mail order because of this and that. As I stated before - it's the service that will keep customers. Because we know how and where to get it cheaper. As far as Petland goes. Chris decided to join the National Guard and was unexpectedly activated for an extended time. With him gone the service went to hell. So the customers (me included)went elsewhere. From what I've read and hear - you were the right guy to have running a LFS. If they would take the time to find people like you - they might better compete with the on-line places. Peace. 
|
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 8:47am
|
I remember Jim Perry talking about online stores before, and he made some good points. All online stores are local stores, just not local to us. But some are, I feel lucky to have had companies like CoralPlanet and Marine Aquatics that are online internet stores, that are local. Now Aquatica is going online. I think if some stores see online shopping as competition, then they should go online to compete with them. I mean if we were in Terre Haute Indiana we wouldn't consider Inland Aquatics to be online, or Premium Aquatics in Indianapolis, we would just walk in the store. Shane is correct, it is service and people that keep customers coming back. And yes Marcus was a great person to have at The Pet Factory running the show. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 10:16am
| I agree with Adam, but want to add that it would be nice for LFS' that go online to "pass on the savings" so to speak to customers that want to purchase online. Otherwise, their sites don't entice me much more than browsing their store would. Because there are lower operating costs to selling online, Internet stores can typically sell cheaper. Plus they move more product, and are able to sell for less. As far as customer service goes, I have talked to some nicer people with these online retailers than I have at some LFS' (not pointing fingers...) I still think there is no replacing the LFS, but until they can lower their prices on hard goods, I'll still look to the internet. I just bought two 250 Watt Ushios online for $140 shipped. In most local stores, they charge $120 a piece for the same bulbs!!! |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 12:01pm
The only point that I would like to make Being a mobile audio installer is that lack of service somtimes comes from not suporting locals and asking the locals all the questions. Example of this is if someone never buys somthing from me and they buy lets says a deck on line. And then they call me on how to install it own or with problems its its hard to give someone free help because I know I can't live without money in my pocket. So I guess if I were to help everyone who asks I would be one of the cool people but I would be broke and homeless in a month. Remember everyone thinks that they are just asking simple questions that would only take a second to answer but, with everyone who just has a quick question there would never be any time to work, therefore no mony would be made and the people you rely on would not be there very long. I sure Ryan would agree he worked with me for 1 day .
I also agree with Shane and Adam, Marcus is a Great addition to any store. He now works for MSM (Great company Great service Great employes) what more do you need. ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: Will Spencer
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 7:36pm
|
As I am just getting started with Saltwater aquariums I am naturally asking a lot of questions. I have found that many LFS are happy to answer my questions even if I don't buy anything that day. They hope that in doing so I will be back. (Which I will if they take the time to make me feel like they want me as a customer.) When I only had freshwater tanks, one particular store, (I'll not name names,) almost would not help me at all. After trying to get attention for 20 mimutes they finally gave me a bag and net and told me to get what I wanted. I likely won't go back to get saltwater stuff now even though they have a great selection. Also just because I can get things on-line cheaper than at the LFS, that doesn't automatically save me money. At the LFS I can spend the little bit of money I have to spend right now on a few of the most important things. If I order on-line I have to pay shipping. This can be extremely high if I buy live animals. My cost on small orders, which is what I can afford, is up not down. There are several LFS in our area that have been very good to me as I start into Saltwater and they will be getting the bulk of my business thanks to their customer service. (Just my $2.00 worth. Sorry for the length.) |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 8:01pm
|
ITS SIMPLE If you want something and you look around at the LFS, and you find it some where at the lowest cost then you find it online for alot cheaper from a good online company then you know what to do its all about money. The more money you save the more you have to spend somewhere else everyone complains about service but lets face it if you walk into a store and they know you buy mostly some where else and you treat them like crap do you think you are going to get more of there business???? i dought it so when it all comes down to it just like everything else you need to shop around LFS and internet cause its your money !!!!! ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 9:12pm
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I bought my lighting from MarineDepot.com Great service at good prices. ------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 10:33pm
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Shane, Adam, Ryan Williams - Thank you for the very nice words. Now I can be great at MSM also...
Sean, You are right!! This thread was about where to get halides. |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 19 2003 at 9:36am
You're absolutely right. And if you're implying that this thread got off topic, I have to disagree. When someone asks me where to get something, I can't not mention the difference in price between LFS and Internet retailers in regards to hard goods. But if you want to know where I get my halide replacement bulbs, I get them from Hellolights.com or A-To-T Lamps on E-bay. Both have great prices, products, and support. To support this example of great customer service, I should mention a recent phone call with Hellolights.com that I had. I called about their latest bulbs (XM Metal Halide 250W 10K for $65 each) I asked them what the VISUAL difference was between these XM bulbs, and the Ushio 10K. He said "you know what? I'm curious about that myself. Why don't you give me about a half an hour to hook them up side by side, and I'll call you and tell you what I think." He called me back a half an hour later, and told me what his opinion of the two bulbs was. (He said they look identical if anyone is wondering.) Not only did he take the time to set up two identical ballasts and reflectors, but then he took the time to call me back. He went even further by telling me that I had a "no questions asked full refund" within 30 days if I didn't like the XM bulbs. That kind of customer service is hard to come by in most LFS' I've been to. I agree wholeheartedly that you cannot replace the role of an LFS, but there are some things (Hardware) that I just won't buy from them. My money matters, and I stretch it as far as I can to make my participation in this hobby possible. I do want to put in a good word for the LFS' about livestock, and other items. They take the same financial risk that we take every time that we buy a fish and bring it home. I recently talked to a prominent LFS' owner, and he told me that the only reason he carries hardware (lighting, filtration, bulbs, skimmers, etc), is because he knows that some people will come in looking for it that would not otherwise be able to find it. Otherwise, the fish and the livestock are all that he really cares about selling. Sorry this is a long post, but I think this is a valid issue to discuss. |
Marcus wrote:Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: September 19 2003 at 12:06pm
|
Ryan - very nice story that you shared about Hellolights.com I also purchased a Coralife 96w PC 50/50 light from them for my refugium. I had a problem with the bulb and they immediately sent me a replacement. I think that when it's time to get new MH bulbs, I'll give their XM's a try. How do you like them? I'm currently running 250w 10k Ushios as well. ------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: September 19 2003 at 12:39pm
|
yea how long did it take to get a replacement bulb. mpo is that this situation is why I buy from LFS I could have got a replacement just by a quick trip back. ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: September 19 2003 at 1:43pm
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It was here the next day. ------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: September 19 2003 at 1:56pm
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I love my XM 250 w 20 k bulbs, I also would wait a few more days to get something to save alot more money were not talking 12345 dollars its more like 20.30.40 dollars savings Im with willden just like anything you try to make your money go as far as it can so why not with fish stuff ?? ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 19 2003 at 4:56pm
|
I ordered my bulbs from Hellolights.com on a Wednesday afternoon, and had them by Friday morning. That's service! By the way, I live in Stansbury Park, so anything to save me from running around town is huge! Especially when it's shipped right to my door. There's no quick trip back to the store for me... It's Awesome!
They also went to the trouble of taking the bulb out of the box, and Sealing it in a large bubble that you could drop right on the floor without damaging the bulb. They look great by the way! I'm sticking with XM's for now on. I really liked the free shirt too.
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 21 2003 at 6:39pm
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I am amazed at how many replies i have received and how fast! I have to agree that online for hardware is the way to go. I compared the same exact ballast kit fromb a lfs to one online and the price difference was $100 dollars, including the kit shipped right to my door! I also bought two fans at $10 a piece. They are 50 cfm a piece, hopefully this is enough for 2 250 watt. Thanks for the info.
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Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 21 2003 at 9:16pm
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50 CFM for a fan is plenty for the lights you bought. My fans blow about 32 CFM and I run two 250 Watt Metal Halides, and two 110W VHO's.
The dB rating there is what I look for. Something below 20 dB is best unless you want to hear your fans running all the time. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 21 2003 at 9:35pm
|
The dBA was in the high twenties, so hopefully it isn't too noisy. They had another fan the same size for $15 that did 115 cfm but had 45 dBA. |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 7:11am
| 45 dBA would drive you nutz. Good call on the fan in the low 20's. Shouldn't be too bad. |
Posted By: Kahuna
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 7:25am
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Where'd you find a fan rating of 20 dBA? ------------- Cell 801 860-7333 |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 8:30am
| Kirk, I bought mine from Standard Electronics supply for about $25 a piece. They're only 18 dB and push about 32 CFM. |
Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 9:24am
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I got mine from the same place. Mine are made by Orion, not sure about Ryan's. ------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |
Posted By: Kahuna
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 10:18am
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Is that local or internet? ------------- Cell 801 860-7333 |
Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 11:47am
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They're local. They may not stock the fans though. I got the Orion 119's. Here is their contact info: Standard Supply Electronics � 3424 South Main Street � Salt Lake City, UT 84115 ------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 12:33pm
| I have the same model fans as Sean. 119's |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: September 22 2003 at 11:36pm
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Hey willden if you ever up on the east side give me call you can take a look at my 20k xm bulbs i remember you telling me awhile ago you was looking into 20k they are great looking.... ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: September 23 2003 at 7:42am
I was ctually thinking about that the other day. When can I stop by, and where do you live? Ryan 824-4598 |