live rock hanger-oners
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Invertebrates
Forum Description: This is the place to ask questions about invertebrates.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=989
Printed Date: November 27 2024 at 1:03pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: live rock hanger-oners
Posted By: Crazy Tarzan
Subject: live rock hanger-oners
Date Posted: September 15 2003 at 12:18pm
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I am currently working on getting my tank up and running, and have purchased about half the live rock I need. Now, on my live rock I have some small purple/green polyps (4 or 5 is all) two small anemone (smaller than a dime in diameter) and one larger bright red anemone about an inch in diameter. I also have a few encrusting growths and boring clams. I would like to keep the anemones and polyps alive if possible during my tanks cycle period, any suggestions? Anything is greatly appreciated, thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 15 2003 at 2:34pm
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Losing organisms on new LR is a fact of life, but I can think of a few things to keep die-off to a minimum.
1) Use as much LS as possible. 10 - 30% LS from other established tanks is a good figure to shoot for. 2) watch nitrogen values and change 10 - 25% of the water if values rise to a dangerous level. Newly mixed saltwater is caustic and can burn coral and fish gills. Always aerate saltwater with an airstone for an hour, or aerate it by pouring mixed saltwater vigorously back and forth between buckets 3-4 times before adding it to the tank. 3) Resist the urge to stock all the LR at once. In fact adding say.. only 10% of total desired LR per week would definitely keep nitrogen levels low enough to ensure a minimum of die off. (See my Tank of the Month to see how this worked for me and how well stocked my tank became within the first month or so.) 4) When transferring LR from a local aquarium, try to keep it always submerged in tankwater. Place it in a bucket underwater and deliver it to the other tank or the transport container maintaining it underwater. Ask the LFS clerk to not shake the LR after removing it from their tank. You want the rock to hold as much water in it's cavities as possible to help maintain life. 5) When introducing rock, that has been out of the water, into your aquarium... turn, twist, and shake it when resubmerging it to release those pesky air bubbles. Air in the cavities of the rock is one of the biggest causes of die-off. 6) Add algae like Caulerpa ASAP; either in the RDP Refugia or the main tank. 7) Use a Reverse Daylight Photosynthesis Refugium! 8) Because LR usually has algae and algae helps with nutrient absorption (the nitrogen cycle), having the lights more on than off is best in my opinion. (I know this goes against what some may have heard) This became more points than I realized initially, but I hope it helps and isn't too long. Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Crazy Tarzan
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 2:22pm
| Thanks for the tips. Some I was already doing by chance, or fortune, but other stuff will be helpful. Good thing I'm not getting all my LR at once. Still have half to get, and not all I got was uncylced. Some of it already was. I do enjoy finding new stuff on it everyday, and am aware that I will loose some, but life goes on. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 3:17pm
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Crazy Tarzan said, "and not all I got was uncylced."
May I suggest that all LR has to "cycle". Whenever it is taken out of water, even for a moment, air is going to get in it and some organisms are going to suffer. That's why the best way to move LR is to keep it constantly submerged. Of course this is not practical when shipping. Though lately, some companies are starting to ship in water. Still, when it's moved into the box and into only a little water, it's going to have die-off. Oh the amazing organisms we would see, if LR was NEVER removed from water and was shipped to us from the ocean in large volumes of circulating water! ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 5:05pm
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I do not know if I entirely agree with you Mark (I know everyone is thinking, "Here he goes again," but hear me out). LR is going to have die-off even if it wasn't taken out of the water. Sensitive organisms all over the live rock may or not be able to adjust to the varrying enviromental changes from moving to a closed system. May I suggest a different approach:
Add all of your live rock before you add any live stock. Whether that means adding all of your live at once or over an extended period. The issue at hand is to not pollute your tank over and over every time you add more rock. Cured rock is probably the safest as far as pollutants go, but I only buy un-cured rock because of the life that is still on the rock. Chances are that if some organisms survived that shipment, then they can survive a "cycle" in your tank. As far as transporting live rock in water, it may help but is it really needed? Very few companies ship live rock submersed. I feel that the amount of organisms that appear on your rock once it is in your tank has more to do with where it comes from than how it was shipped. Figi rock has some cool stuff but not nearly as much life as Indo or Tongan rock. I buy all of my rock as soon as it shows up at the LFS and take it straight to the tank. I dip it once or twice in a rubbermaid with 1.025 specific gravity salt water to get any dirt off and then it goes right in the tank. My lights are on from that day forth. Then, I sit back and see what grows out. I would wait about 2 weeks before even thinking about adding any new live stock. Just my ideas... |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 8:44pm
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I agree with everything you said Marcus...100%
One of the things I've come to appreciate is that you and others currently in the hobby that really have tried things and read the literature and thought about it, do have a lot of good methods. When I started in the hobby 10 years ago, the idea of buying a box of LR(live rock) was almost unheard of. WMAS club members that bought livestock were sorely disappointed when more than half of the animals died.... Hey, we were still trying to persuade people to get rid of their bleached coral in favor of 3 inches of substrate, a plenum, and LR! Back then, all 15 of us  were absolutely amazed as LeRoy Headlee of GARF visited and described his method to cut and propagate a Mushroom Leather!.. A simple leather coral!! (current avarage attendance at meetings is around 60 and there are more than 100 paid members, most of them probably eagerly anticipating next months semi-annual coral propagation seminar!!!)
When coral became available all across the country, I wondered whether it would catch on. By the time it all came to the point where shippers could ship reliably healthy and long-lived organisms, I didn't need much. I already had my tanks full and was constantly giving it away to new hobbyists that were dumbfounded that such coral could be grown and propagated. So I guess what I am saying is that I'm an old man and realize that I'm a little out of touch with current practices. I got EVERYTHING from the LFS(local fish store). I bought a few pieces every couple months and waited for them to "grow into" my established tank and thus no real "tank wide" cycling occurred. The die-off was handled by the existing bacteria, critters and clean-up crew. There was hardly a bump in nitrogen compond levels. So that's why I suggest taking it slow with LR a few pieces at a time, especially on a limited budget like I was on. Not that what I suggest is outdated or doesn't work. It seems to work very well. I get excited when I see ways to make a beautiful reef on a shoestring. My experience with adding a few pieces of LR and coral to a tank full of clean and free, Utah Aragonite materials has been surprisingly successful and I was happy to hand it over to my niece. Hi McKenna   ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 16 2003 at 9:16pm
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Thanks for your reply Mark. You certaintly have a lot of information that you have gathered in your 10 years in the hobby.
P.S. I'll save face and not comment on the Utah LR stuff. hehe... |
Posted By: Crazy Tarzan
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 7:14am
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Well, all this info is very helpful. I am not adding all the LR at once since there are budget constraints to be considered (something about getting hitched eats up all your extra $). I wasn't planning on getting any live stock until I had all the LR in and cycled so when thats done I'll start looking at a fish or two. You guys are great and I'm happy to find so many "locals" who are in this hobby and willing to lend advice or help out with stuff. Hope I can come to a meeting someday and meet some of ya. But keep the suggestions coming, and I'll keep reading and learning. Thanks, Nathan |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 8:29am
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Nathan, It is people like you that this club was meant for. It is nice to see someone asking questions and gathering opinions before really getting involved with their tank. I would make my comments here, but it seems like Mark and Marcus have covered it all. I wish more hobbiests were like you and put the effort into preplanning their tanks. I should mention that there are about 4 new people on this message board that I am very pleased to see here asking questions. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Crazy Tarzan
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 11:54am
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Can anyone recomend a decent book on tank inverts so that I can figure out what types of corals, shrimp, crabs etc to place in my tank and not have any major or deadly conflicts? And where I can find that book? Thanks ahead of time, Nate |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 6:15pm
| There is a new book out named REEF INVERTABRATES. I cannot remember who the author is but if you call any LFS and ask about the new book, they should know. |
Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 9:16pm
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It's by Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner. I have a copy of it. I got mine from Ebay for $27.00, they retail for $42.95
------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: September 17 2003 at 11:07pm
| Sean, thanks for watching my back. Its an awesome book. |
Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: September 18 2003 at 7:01am
No problem Marcus!  ------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |