ph, alk, nitrate problem
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Topic: ph, alk, nitrate problem
Posted By: CHAOS
Subject: ph, alk, nitrate problem
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 2:15pm
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PH 7.5 Alk 120 Nitrate 80 Salt 1.023 ( I know how to fix this one) My 40g tank w 15g sump has been running since November. I am currently dealing with digitate hydroid (mechanically) Ant there is all kinds of stuff growing fast on the glass, no string algae yet though. I recently put a constant light on the sump but the chaetomorpha still isn't growing. What are my options? Thanks in advance.  |
Replies:
Posted By: proskier101
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 2:23pm
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is the alk 12.0? i know there are 2 ways to read the measurements.
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Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 2:43pm
| On the test strip it shows 120 as barely to low |
Posted By: AcroNem
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 2:56pm
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What test are you using? Is anything else showing signs of stress in your tank? ------------- 150G mixed reef, growing coral farm. Thirteenth year keeping reefs, always here to talk fish. 801-850-7577. |
Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 3:02pm
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Pet smart 5 in 1 strip One of my blastomussa is not opening up. Massive bloom of something, maybe digitate hydroid on the glass, and more algae than usual on the glass. |
Posted By: AcroNem
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 3:10pm
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In my opinion test strips tend to be very inaccurate. But high nutrient levels would cause some of the problems you're seeing. What's your water change schedule like? ------------- 150G mixed reef, growing coral farm. Thirteenth year keeping reefs, always here to talk fish. 801-850-7577. |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 3:54pm
| Where do you live?.... if you are by Murray/ Taylorsville you can come over and i will test your water |
Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 4:17pm
| I live in Orem, I changed 20% once when overfeeding spiked my ammonia |
Posted By: bstuver
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 4:32pm
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Shoot me a PM with your number and I will text you when I might be available to have you bring some water to test to my house so I can test it for you. ------------- Jackie Stuver "wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 7:56pm
According to this good Alkalinity calculator http://www.saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php" rel="nofollow - http://www.saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php 120 ppm is 6.72 dKH -- if accurate, that's too low, but I can't imagine how it got that low because I don't see a lot of Alk users in there. Check it for accuracy with BStuver, another hobbyist or a LFS before adding some baking soda to raise it by no more than 1 dKH(20 ppm) per day. The quality and intensity of light is very important for Macroalgae growth. What type and wattage light is over the Refugium? If it's not already, turn it on on 24 hrs/day until this emergency passes. The water surface is stagnant. Not good.  Point the little powerhead up to stir the water surface. It's the easiest thing to do to help raise pH ASAP. Here's a Tip. Cut a notch in the base so the red post can slip in the notch and point up at a steeper angle. As the Alkalinity rises, the pH will follow, so don't worry about pH any more, just make sure Alk is 8-12 dKH(140-220 ppm ) and surface water is moving good.I see that you are using a bubbler. That's good but isn't there a lot of salt spray? Or is there a cover over the top of the tank? It is critically important to remove any cover from off the top of the tank. A cover impedes gas exchange lowers pH and creates an unhealthy situation for the entire tank, even with a sump/Refugium. I would eventually remove the bubbler. Two more things: Double check the Nitrate level and check the temperature. Unplug the heater. The weather is getting warmer. A heater is not needed and can be a potential problem. (More on that later if you're interested.) Last question.  Has anything else been added, changed or done differently in the last 2 weeks? Aloha, Mark
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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CHAOS wrote:Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 9:31pm
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Yes salt spray, yes cover, even with almost 3 square foot of open surface in the sump? Temp is at 78, what is a safe range? My constant is 76-78 I will move the jet angle Already talking to bstuver Only change is added blundell buttons |
Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 16 2015 at 11:25pm
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Ph 8.1 Alk 145 Phos 1.0 Nitrate 60 Water changes start tomorrow Thank you Justin! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 6:58am
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So things are already on the mend. PO4 at 1.0 ppm is a little high. This morning I awoke thinking about this situation and wondering about PO4. Can you add some Activated Alumina(AA) in a media bag near the return pump intake? Used in this way, AA very quickly and effectively sucks PO4 out of the water.  Are those new numbers(pH, Alk, NO3) due to inaccurate readings the first go around or is that how it improved after adding Alkalinity, changing the flow, removing the cover, etc.?A critical question: What type and wattage light is over the Refugium? It needs to be very bright and the right spectrum for growing algae. As stated above, "If it's not already, turn it on on 24 hrs/day until this emergency passes."Yes, even with an open sump, as I stated above, "It is critically important to remove any cover from off the top of the tank. A cover impedes gas exchange, lowers pH and creates an unhealthy situation for the entire tank, even with a sump/Refugium. I would eventually remove the bubbler." Or I would place a cover over just the area where the bubbles pop. Algae is extremely powerful at reducing pollution. When algae is illuminated 24 hrs/day it can cut polluting Nitrates and the other two N compounds by half in just 24 hours. In other words, 60 ppm Nitrates can be reduced very quickly to a safer level just by illuminating the algae. This is something that few people understand, but I know it's true. I've used algae for this purpose many times. It avoids the need for water changes. I'm not saying not to do a water change, but a water changes can reduce pollution only by the percentage of the water change. On the other hand, Algae that is well illuminated 24/7 keeps on working and grows larger. As it grows, the increased growth mass eats the pollution in an exponential manner, even while we are sleeping. Unfortunately, it cannot do this if it is not well illuminated, thus the importance of the question above. There are two reasons for my suggestion to unplug the heater. Allowing the tank to cool down to room temperature will 1) increase the available Oxygen in the water so that everything can breathe easier and 2) slow metabolism so that any bad effects of the pollution will be delayed and avoided while the pollution level drops due to 24/7 algae growth eating it up. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 8:29am
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Mark, Not mending yet, just more accurate testing. Thanks to Justin Justin did give me a bag of chemipure blue to start lowering the po4, and I put it in last night. Light on the sump is not powerful enough, and probably the wrong spectrum. Algae is not growing and nitrate are high, I am planning on building something today. I did leave my lid open last night Am I just being paranoid about dropping the temp of my tank by 10 degrees? Should i do it slowly, turn the heater down a little each day? |
Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 12:37pm
 Looking better today, only added chemi pure blue and a better light on the chaetomorpha. |
Posted By: AcroNem
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 12:48pm
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If I'm still coming by in the next couple days for your water change we'll check where the phosphates are at it should pull them out quickly. How's everything else looking? ------------- 150G mixed reef, growing coral farm. Thirteenth year keeping reefs, always here to talk fish. 801-850-7577. |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 12:52pm
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A clamp lamp from home depot with a 3500k CFL 20w bulb will grow algae like crazy in a sump, and it's under $10 total. Lighting up a sump, especially in smaller setups, can do wonders for PH stability. If you have excess nutrients algae is also great at eating them up. Pollutants affect a fish in many ways. Metabolic processes are only one way that pollutants are introduced into the fish's body. In my opinion dropping the temperature wouldn't effectively reduce the stress from pollutants, in fact the temperature swing could cause more harm than good. If your tank has a sump, it's more than likely that your water is saturated with oxygen. Everything Mark said is true, I just doubt you have a lack of oxygen in your system. Slowing down metabolism in your fish, also slows down the metabolism of detritovores, so using temperature to control metabolism with the goal of nutrient control seems like sixes to me.
Chemi Pure and a light over your fuge is a great start for sure. Random question, are you running any vinyl tubing in your system? ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 2:01pm
| No vinyl here, just sch40 pvc |
Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 2:41pm
| So the sand sifting star that hitchhiked into my tank a month ago is not dead, and is not a sss either. It is a brittle star, which are listed as very sensitive to bad water. I'm not sure why it's not dead but it's also not doing anything for stirring my sand. |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 2:58pm
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I don't think your water is that bad. I think you had PH swings, and your phosphates are a bit high. Phosphates will cause issues with sensitive corals, but very few animals are actually sensitive to said phosphates. The PH swings will probably correct themselves now you have fixed a couple of things, I'd be willing to bet they're already looking better. My next concern is the high Phosphates. With phosphates that high you run the risk of nuisance algae exploding etc. Chemipure will pull some phosphates, but honestly with them being that high you will very quickly saturate the alumina in the chemipure, and phosphates will build again. It is very unlikely that macroalgae will remove phosphates that high. You need to find what is causing the Phosphates. What water are you filling up the tank with? Do you use RO/DI? Do a phosphate test on whatever your water source is. If that comes up as zero, then something in your tank is leeching phosphates. Rock is a common offender, but for now let's get your water source tested for phosphates and nitrates. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 3:37pm
| Water is ro, not di. Justin pointed out that the second hand sand may be part of the problem. |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 7:22am
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Mix up some new water, test the phosphates for a base line, then set up two containers. In one container put the newly mixed salt water in with some sand. In the other out new water and a rock. Let them sit for a couple of hours, preferably with a power head, and test phosphates again to see if it is your rock or your sand leeching phosphates. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 4:32pm
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Good advice from John. I agree with all of it. RO water is plenty good for reef aquariums. What we have come to call the "Home Depot Special" refugium light is absolutely awesome. It's a clip-on aluminum cone reflector with a 26W(150 W equivalent incandescent) Daylight color (not Soft White) twist compact fluorescent bulb. Be sure to secure/hang the clip light so it cannot slip and fall into the water. Chemipure Blue utilizes DI Resin to remove PO4. I have a concern with using it long term. When the ion exchange resin gets saturated will it release PO4 in favor of other ionic molecules? My understanding is that ion exchange resin has this drawback, including the resin used in RO/DI water purification units. I also don't like combination products. Each tank is different. AC(Activated Carbon) becomes saturated within 2 weeks so that means tossing out the entire product, even if the other part is not saturated. To fit the needs of each particular tank, I adjust the amount of AA(Activated Alumina) used in one bag and the AC in another bag so they get saturated at about the same time. I generally use 3-4 times as much AC as AA. AA does not release PO4 or silica(another benefit of AA) back into the water and in normal situations it even turns from bright white to tan to dark tan, as evidence that it's getting saturated. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: CHAOS
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 10:26pm
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With the help of a couple of awesome guys we did a %50 water change today Nitrates are down to 20 Phosphates are down to .25 and most of all, my stress level is down. A couple of days ago I put my stock hood (2x 18" t8 white) over my sump on 24hrs today I got a grow bulb from Lowes and put it in the $10 clip on light. I will run that and see if we can get some serious Macro growth. |