CopperBand Butterfly Fish Breathing Heavy HELP!
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Category: Help
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72553
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Topic: CopperBand Butterfly Fish Breathing Heavy HELP!
Posted By: justchillinuno
Subject: CopperBand Butterfly Fish Breathing Heavy HELP!
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 9:58pm
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Hey there my fish is acting weird, I noticed him near some rocks earlier then recently he started laying on them and floating all weird while gasping / fast chugging water... I have looked online and see many different things... Is he a goner!? ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |
Replies:
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 10:12pm
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Neither video worked for me. Breathing heavy often suggests a parasitic infestation in the gills, which is hard to treat. Treatment will depend on the infection type. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: justchillinuno
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 10:21pm
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Videos updated!!! Darn Https.... had to take the s out! ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 11:22pm
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The fish looks incredibly emaciated. What are you feeding and how often? I didn't see any parasites externally...do you see anything? How long have you had it? ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: justchillinuno
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 6:34am
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Update - The fish has been in the tank 2 months, I have tigerpods we feed and stock the tank with, We feed mysis and brine shrimp regularly. Fish has been eating like a champ too! Fish has passed... No parasites were visible, no damage to the fish.... My daughters going to be heartbroken when she wakes up.... ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 6:50am
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So sorry for your loss. I agree, the B-fly is very thin. It has not been eating well enough for the entire time. Starvation has taken it. It's not your fault. Some fish just won't eat enough of the supplemental food we use. Some fish have internal parasite problems making it uncomfortable to eat or have an intestinal parasite which steals all the food for itself. Some fish are caught with Cyanide, so their bodies just cannot utilize the food they eat.  I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I thought you ought to know that it looks to me like the Mandarin is also starving. It's belly looks sunken in. A healthy Mandarin will be fat in the area behind and below the pectoral fins. How long has it been in the tank? If you would like to post a pic of the entire tank and another pic if there is a Refugium, we can try to help. If I recall, this 90 is upgraded from a 55. How many months has this 90 been running? How long was the 55 running? Aloha  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 8:28am
| That was a tough video to watch |
Posted By: justchillinuno
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 9:17am
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Tank has been up since March, I feed daily at night and all fish eat as I have been keeping a close eye on it. My Mandarin eats all the time and since the Tisbe pods have been introduced 2 months ago I see him munching on stuff all day! I will say that in recent months... I have had a coris wrasse, Tamarin wrasse and a firefish die/disapear... and now this guy.. None of the other fish seem affected by it... The Butterfly did NOT have any parasites on it and was eating just an hour before i posted the vids. Water levels were normal on last check and I will be checking again.... The worst part is we leave tonight until Sunday night for an out of town wedding.... But again... All other life in the tank seems happy and healthy.... Here are more pics! http://s51.photobucket.com/user/justchillinuno/slideshow/Full%20Tank%20PicsVids ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 11:29am
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I'm going to guess that either the quantity of food you're feeding isn't high enough, or that your fish have an internal parasite judging by their looks and the type of fish you're losing. PraziPro is an excellent medication and is generally reef safe. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: justchillinuno
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 11:41am
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What is the best way to verify parasites? I dont want to dose our tank unless its absolutely needed!! ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 11:41am
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Tamarind Wrasse, Coris Wrasse, Copperband, Mandarin...
All 4 are BIG consumers of bugs / pods / worms
IMO 1 of those type of feeders is enough for a 90g tank (maybe 2)
4 of them is way too many; not enough of a constant supply of food in the rockwork (despite manual feedings)
Starvation was likely a factor in the deaths of all 3, and I agree w/ Mark - your Mandarin is malnourished and may soon be next
Sorry for the bad news. See if the Mandarin will eat frozen glassworms and bloodworms; those may help
How many lbs of Live Rock do you have?
A 90g tank with that many grazers would need a ton of rock in it - like 100 lbs worth
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 11:42am
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Three Wrasse alongside a Mandarin in that tank means that whatever bugs were not eaten will live in hidden areas so they don't get eaten. With that many bug eaters in that tank, someone (the Mandarin) is going to go hungry. It's in the Mandarin's nature to go around and pick at possible food targets all the time, but that does not mean it's getting anything, or getting enough. Look at it's empty belly. The evidence is in it's emaciated appearance. This is an extra clean tank, something that most people think looks good, but unfortunately something that actually can contribute to stress, hunger and even mortality. The biological system that supports more animals is often considered messy or dirty. The Mandarin does not naturally live in those pretty, pristine, published images we most often associate with a coral reef. Is UV or Ozone running on this tank  If so, the tank may be getting too much of it. Would you care to show us the Sump and Refugium You said "The Butterfly did NOT have any parasites on it and was eating just an hour before...." Unfortunately internal parasites in the gut and parasites on the gills are not visible without an autopsy. Also, we know that Butterflyfish have special feeding requirements which leads to high mortality in captivity. They may eat tons of fish foods, but not get what they need to survive. Also remember, it was mentioned in the previous post how Cyanide affects the fish, leading to early death. There are many causes of fish death that are not our fault and over which we have very little control. I would bet that the usual water quality parameters are fine. It's just that there are other environmental conditions that might add to improvement, if you are willing to share and are open to learning.
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: justchillinuno
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 11:54am
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I am open to learning and sharing. I am currently at work, I DO NOT have UV or Ozone running on this tank. I have a Bubblemagus Skimmer, A FilterSock, with reefmud and spaghetti algea in my sump below... I can get pics of the sump up later... Suggestions on stocking pods/bugs/food for these fish? I have put in tisbe pods a little over a month ago... and I buy the San Fran Bay foods along with the Ocean Nutrition Spurilina Brine Shrimp and Mysis.... I now Wish we were not leaving tonight to go out of town as I would love to have anyone interested in helping over to help! On that note... If anyone wants to come see the set up before 8pm tonight please message me as at 8 I must leave for the airport! Thanks in advance!!! ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |
Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 11:57am
| My suggestion with my limited knowledge it to install a very large refugium where you can continue to grow a healthy amount of these bugs that your fish need to consume. |
Posted By: justchillinuno
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 12:06pm
Here is the tank before we got it set up!  ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 5:09pm
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I am willing to visit and give specific suggestions. Just call or text to schedule. Adding supplemental tisbe copepods and other "bugs" to a system can be helpful, but that creates competition for the finite food supply. Perhaps a more practical approach is to feed the many varieties of bugs that already exist in the system. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds of bug species already present in every system. With increased feeding comes an increased population of all those bugs. What to feed? Pulverized frozen meaty foods and microscopic sized invert/fish larvae foods. The RDP (Reverse Daylight Photosynthesis) Refugium was first suggested over 15 years ago by John Walsh in the hobbyist magazine Freshwater and Marine Aquarist. (See the article "RDP Filtration" in this newsletter: http://www.utahreefs.com/SeaStar/wmasSeaStar02Feb.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.utahreefs.com/SeaStar/wmasSeaStar02Feb.pdf ) The concept was to grow algae and bugs which typically got decimated in the display in a separate but connected tank, thereby providing the amazing water filtering benefits of algae growth on a reverse photoperiod, combined with the additional benefit of supplying the display with new bugs and their spawn as cleaners and fish/invert food. The original RDP Refugium did not use a modern day skimmer or had no skimmer at all. Algae growth and bug populations were extremely abundant in these early RDP Refugiums. This is just my opinion but based on what I have seen in recent years, too much of a good thing may be interfering with some aspects of our reefkeeping. Specifically, the super skimmer of today is working too well. It is cleaning the water for sensitive coral but also removing the food that bugs and algae require in order to flourish. It's very difficult to have your cake and eat it too. Acropora require different water conditions than Mandarin Fish. To achieve a good balance, I suggest the following: 1. Use a skimmer that is rated for half the system's capacity or run the current skimmer half time. 2. Leave the filter sock out of the system for half time or less. 3. In tight spaces, use a baffle-less sump where the Refugium (sand bed and algae) can occupy almost the entire area, where the return pump intake is near the water surface (overflow safety, etc.) and both the return pump and skimmer pump intakes are double screened to prevent algae clogs. Hope some of this helps. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: justchillinuno
Date Posted: August 18 2014 at 8:50am
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Mark, Thanks for the advice! We just got back in town last night and I will PM you soon!! Justin ------------- 55g - RIP - Moved to 90g 36g Bow holding tank 90g Reef Tank Dreams of many more! |