My fish are sick!!! Help
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: EMERGENCY FORUM
Forum Description: If you have an Emergency post here and you should receive a quick reply.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71834
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Topic: My fish are sick!!! Help
Posted By: Dan9554880
Subject: My fish are sick!!! Help
Date Posted: June 17 2014 at 5:35pm
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So after losing my butterfly, I don't really want to lose anymore fish. So from what I can tell are sick are hippo tang, yellow tang, 3 clownfish , Tomini tang. Fish that haven't show any symptoms are yellow coris wrasse, flame angel, fire fish, yellow tail damsel, cleaner wrasse. I have have all this fish for a long time now. I think they have ick but after looking thorugh other disease it could he brookleynella or flukes maybe??? They have white spots, from those spots It looks like this little white thing is sticking out (kinda like a zit). What can I do to make sure they survive? Currently I'm feeding with garlic. Don't have a qt set up right now, so I would like to be able to treat in the display (reef). I only have a 20 long, that could work as a qt Thanks ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Replies:
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 17 2014 at 8:11pm
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The Garlic product you are using isn't working. The stuff I have makes Ich disappear in 1-2 days. I offered to come over and look at this for you but you never contacted me. This kinda makes it look like you are not really serious. Maybe you are serious, but your fish wouldn't know it. I am still offering to come over. Here is my phone number again. 808-345-1049 Aloha, Mark  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: June 17 2014 at 9:20pm
| Just because he doesn't want you over does not mean he isn't serious about his fish. He doesn't know you from Adam. You are a complete stranger to him. Some people are not comfortable with having strangers in their house. Or maybe he was just busy when you offered. You never know mark so you can't make assumptions like that. Just saying. .. |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 17 2014 at 9:32pm
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It's not that. I just didn't understand the first message he sent me ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 8:43am
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Lost 1 pair of clowns to what looks like brooklynella. Does anyone know where I could find formalin? ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 8:59am
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I have some. I think The Aquarium and Fish4U carry it. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 9:46am
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Arranged to visit around 6pm tonight. Really? I am considered a stranger here?  Looks like assumptions were made all around.  A long time ago when the club was smaller, I used to visit every new member. This forum brought a huge jump in new people. Now I have to be pretty selective. I only offer to visit when I can see a real benefit. I'm always available for advice via phone/text and I never say No to a reasonable request for a visit. I applaud Nikki for for her visits to hobbyists.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 11:42am
| I am not trying to be rude or anything. I was just saying that because he didn't have you over does not mean he doesn't want the best for fish. Looks like he did want the help anyways. So your assumptions about his dedication were wrong. I know you dedicate countless hours helping the local hobbyist around here. My hat is off to you for that. You should just understand that because someone doesnt have Mark Peterson over to solve all their fish problems doesn't mean they don't care and want the best for their fish tank |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 1:46pm
 for sure. I'm only one person with one point of view.------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 3:52pm
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Came home to the yellow tail damsel dead ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 4:37pm
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Brookynella requires fast treatment. Sorry for your losses. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 4:50pm
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. ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 18 2014 at 4:52pm
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I call fish4U and they said they carry formalin with malachite green. Do you think that's good enough to use to treat them? Also I will have to treat all the fish or can I just treat the ones that look sick? Meaning just leaving the rest in a qt. ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 5:18am
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Aloha, Thanks for welcoming my wife and I into your home. It's a nice tank with nice coral but sick fish.  Sorry for your losses. We know how miserable it can be when the tank is not doing well. 5" Yellow Tang, 6" Blue Tang, 4" Tomini Tang, 2 x 3" Clownfish, 4" Yellow Coris.... I agree, it looks like they have Brooklynella which is going to take its course. What was that new 2 step product called? Please keep us updated on how its working out.Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 8:53am
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Tomini tang & clown dead. Fish that still look sick are: clown, hippo tang, yellow tang. Fish without symptoms are: yellow coris wrasse, cleaner wrasse, firefish The product is called marine max By tropical science ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 5:56pm
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I've been thinking of doing a freshwater dip on my last clown. But it's the first time I do it so I have a few questions. Is matching ph really important? Because I don't have anything to measure it with or change it. Do you use RO or dechlorinated tap water? For how long do you do it for? So my plan is to put him in a freshwater dip with methalyne blue. Then put him in a qt with rid ich plus (has formalin) ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 6:02pm
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Ph match is important as well as temp. Use baking soda to raise. 5-15 min dip is recommended. Either water will be fine. Tap water has a closer ph match to your tank to begin with. ------------- 150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues. |
Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 6:03pm
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Treatment can kill your fish too. Just fyi. ------------- 150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues. |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 7:07pm
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Since I don't have a way to measure ph could I just used tank water & added methylene blue to it? ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 7:21pm
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Man that hurts. Nikki please correct me, but for Brooklynella, I believe the fish have to be in QT with medication for a week or so. Also If I remember correctly, a freshwater dip does not kill the disease. Sorry  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 7:27pm
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So should I just put him in the quarantine tank then? I wasn't able to find formalin so I got rid ich plus which has 11.52% formalin and machine green. To medicate in the qt tank. Should I just put that in the quarantine tank or do a higher dose and use it as a dip? ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 8:02pm
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I'm sorry. The last time I can remember having Brooklynella was 8 years ago. I guess I've been lucky, so I'm not much help. I'd try any treatment now and then hope that ReefdUp chimes in. She knows a lot more about it. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 8:45pm
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Sorry for the delay. My phone was pretty much dead, so I had to wait until I could get to my computer. If you're going to do this right, you'll have to treat ALL of your fish outside of the aquarium in a QT tank. Otherwise, any remaining fish and the water will harbor remaining parasites to reinfect your treated fish. Formalin is pretty much the only thing I know that works on Brook. Other things help, but "help" is the key word. I've only ever used 37% Formaldehyde Formalin. As a rule, I avoid Malachite Green. That's some nasty stuff. I worry that if you triple the dosage of the "Rid Ich" that you'll overdose the fish on MG. (Side note...that's some interesting marketing for formalin and MG to be considered a treatment for ich....) Anyway. Freshwater won't do a whole lot. It might knock a couple of the parasites off, but it's probably not enough to be worth the stress. A methylene blue freshwater dip may help get more oxygen to the fish since brook usually attacks the gill area first. And yes, pH is extremely important to match. I use dechlorinated tap water for freshwater dips since its pH is closer to tank water than RO water. Hyposalinity doesn't kill off the parasite. It just helps the fish exert less energy maintaining osmotic balance and helps the effectiveness of antibiotics. Note...Brook usually leaves some nasty lesions that will need an antibiotic. I like Furan-2. Copper is not effective. Back to Formalin. If I were to treat the fish, this is what I would do. Treat a QT tank (new saltwater at proper salinity, temp, & pH) with Furan-2. Prepare a 1 gallon dip (new saltwater at proper salinity, temp, & pH) with 1-2 tsp Formalin (depending on the fish). Aerate this dip well, and add the fish. Leave the fish in for 30-60 minutes (depending on stress level), then move the fish to the QT tank. In 24 hours, prepare a second QT tank like the first along with a second bath. Place the fish into the bath, then move the fish into the new QT tank. Bleach the old QT tank and rinse. Wait two days, then repeat this process again. Wait three days, then repeat this process again. Wait four days, then repeat the process. Now, leave the fish out of the main display for 6-8 weeks to allow the parasites to die from lack of a host. Use Amquel daily in the QT tanks to prevent ammonia poisoning. You'll note that my recommendations differ somewhat from other recommendations online, and that's for a few reasons. First, up until 2006, Brook species were only documented on marine fish, not free-living (it was originally discovered in 1970). This is why I advocate the tank transfer method since you may have a free-living species. I also recommend more treatments up front and gradually lessening. This is a nasty parasite without a direct life cycle. Treating every three days or whatever as other people recommend assumes a steady life cycle. Instead, I prefer to knock out as much as possible as quickly as possible. Three days between treatments is just too long, and there are plenty of people who had infections return. Ok...so "Rid Ich"... well...if it's the best you've got, then this sounds like the best treatment protocol: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1046945 You could do a bath instead of the dip, which is longer time at a lower dose. Keep the QT tank out of sunlight (or any light really), since it'll break down the formaldehyde. Also keep anything treated with formalin less than 80*. And...as mentioned...these treatments can easily kill the fish before the parasite. Formaldehyde (and MG) is nasty, so use caution while dosing. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 8:59pm
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Okay so I really don't have a lot of money, so what I have is a 20 long that I set up with new salt water. I got the rid ich because I wasn't able to find formalin. The livestock I have left are 1 clown (not doing well) flame angel (not doing well) hippo tang (acting normal but still sick) yellow tang (acting alright), yellow coris wrasse (not infected), cleaner wrasse (not infected) firefish (not infected) So I was thinking of getting all the fish out and put them in a bucket with tank water with some methalyne blue. Then pass them to the qt. which has the rid ich. I can't really set up another tank since I don't have an ro unit. Will prime help with the ammonia? Or should I just take out take out the infected fish and leave the 3 fish in the display. I'm thinking of leaving them in there & just keep dosing the marine max since it supposed to help their immune system. If I do this I'm thinking it could be better since they all won't be cramp inside a small tank, less ammonia in the tank as well. & the "healthy" fish don't have to go through the stress of being move and being in an uncycle tank ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 9:31pm
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I highly doubt you have any 'uninfected' fish. They are probably just not showing signs/symptoms. Prime is fine for saltwater. Amquel works with formalin. I can only tell you how to do it right. I can't tell you if what you want to do will work. Buckets, heaters, and air stones work just fine for QT. No need to break the bank. Think of it like this... You are sick and go to the doc. The doc prescribes a treatment plan with medicine. Instead of following that advice, you go to the dollar store and find some other drug with the same active ingredient, but it also contains all sorts of herbs, etc. Without studying that medicine for that condition, the doc can't tell you if that will work. It might. It might not. If it's the best you can do, then that's the best you can do. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 19 2014 at 11:07pm
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Can I used tap water for water changes in the qt or do I have to used Ro ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 20 2014 at 1:57am
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If tap water is what you have, use it. I'm happy to give you all the free RO water you need but I'm probably too far away to make it practical. Maybe there is someone closer that will offer RO water. Isn't Nikki AWESOME ! The more I get to know her, the more I love her.  Aloha ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 20 2014 at 4:13pm
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I can get to from liverocknreef since I bought a 5 gal jug. Well the last clown past away. The flame angel colors are coming back so I'm hoping for him to recover ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 11:00am
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Just to update how things are going. The clown didn't make he was too sick Flame angel was doing great, he was a lot better than when I took him out. Had great colors buy one morning he was dead Died about 5 days ago Hippo & yellow tang are doing great. They only have a few spots left on them. Cleaner wrasse die on main display, I had to break down the rock structures so the next day he got stuck between rocks and die. Yellow wrasse still on main display, not showing any symptoms still, eating and swimming great Firefish still in main display, not showing any symptoms, eating and swimming great ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 8:31pm
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Tanks for the update. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: bmac2
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 10:45am
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hey Dan, I have 200 gallons of RO water in my drums so come get all you need. You can even borrow my 5 gallon totes to take it home. Also, I have a I think 50 gallon tank that was a turtle tank you can borrow to use as another QT tank. I live in Riverton, so if you are in West Valley I am straight down Bangatar from you. If you want my address text me and I will text it back to you 801-403-8625. I will be home until probably 4 pm today ------------- Aquarium Creations 300 gallon tank Stand by Dion |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 11:06am
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Thanks Bmac2 for the offer but I think I got it under control right now. I'll let you know if I need anything ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: July 12 2014 at 12:31pm
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So the tangs have been in the qt tank for 4 weeks now. The yellow tang has shown any symptoms for the past 2 1/2 weeks. The hippo tang has some white spots still, they had Gone away before but came back again. She looks stress in such of a small tank. Do you guys think I should just transfer them into the display tank? ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |