Deep Sand Bed
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: General Help
Forum Description: The place to ask about pest, problems, hitchhikers, etc.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65324
Printed Date: July 15 2025 at 4:08pm
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Topic: Deep Sand Bed
Posted By: lskurys
Subject: Deep Sand Bed
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 9:17am
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A few weeks ago I was having a problem with my tank that we could not really pin point the problem. and started thinking it was a new salt mix. In the last 3 week I have done close to a 100% water change and the corals are looking much better in general. There are still a few Zoa's that are not happy and I have lost a couple of other smaller coral frags. I could not say for sure that they were not sick before I did the water changes and switched over to my old salt again. So here is my problem that I am having and really have been having for months. I have been having really low ph. My PH will drop as low as 7.75(last night) and my daytime high ph has only been 8.02 for the last 2 weeks. I do have an air line from out side piped to my skimmer to help with a well sealed house. I do dose about 75% of the AlK at night to try to keep the PH up. I added a Air stone to both overflows. Nothing is seeming to help with the PH. I was over at AD last night and they did let me know that I could add the 8.4 supplement. They also said that I could be my sand bed. I did end up with some very fine sand when I set up my tank. I think i added about 50 pounds of the fine sand. I added a mix of a few other sizes of sand and mixed it all up good. I ended up with about 2.5 inches of sand covering the bottom of the thank. I have 3 Gobies in the tank that move the sand around. They have moved and stacked so much in the front of the thank that there are large sections that are over 6" deep. and the pile keeps getting moved. Last night when I was cleaning my glass I was getting lots of bubble and a bit of an egg smell so I am pretty sure that I have an issue with the sand bed I am thinking of removing the deep sand bed and resetting my tank back to about 1" to 1.5" sand again hoping that this will fix the problems that I have been having. I know that it can kill my tank very quickly so what is the best way to remove the DSB from my display? Thank in advance Shelby ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Replies:
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 9:39am
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How long has this tank been setup? ------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 9:57am
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Shelby,
I had the same problem for awhile in my tank. The best way I found to to remove the sand was to remove the top 1/2-3/4" of sand and then wait a week before removing the next layer. It took some time but when I tried to remove more than that I ran into issues with black areas in the sand and very unhappy corals.
Hope that helps. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 10:17am
The tank has been set up for 11 months. I have been having problems with the ph for the 2.5 months were I could not get it above 8.10 during the day. So here is the plan that I am trying to work out now. I will be starting a 4 day week end so I am thinking of getting 2-3 cups of sand from the top. Then draining my display removing all rock/ corals then using a shop-vac to remove all the sand. After it is all cleaned out I am not sure if I want to put back like 1" or 1.5" of Florida crushed coral. then I will seed the tank with my old tank, replace water, corals and rock?? Well that is the start of the plan anyway. I am thinking that going slow will add more problems to the corals that are already stressed in my tank right now. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
builderofdreams wrote:Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 10:23am
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If you are removing all of your current sand and replacing it with new then yes you can drain it and do it all at one time. You will still see a little stress from the reseeding of the sand bed but if you keep the rock in water so that you don't create a bunch of die off on it the re-seed cycle should be managable. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 10:37am
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Seems odd that you would be having problems with sand that is less Than a year old.was the sand new when it was put in the tank or was it old and cleaned? ------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 11:01am
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For what it's worth here is what I did when moving a tank with a DSB across the room. No losses, no cycle and the corals all looked great in 2 days after the move. 1. Drain 1/4 of the water into a tub for the loose corals. Then move the unattached corals into the tub. Run a small power head in the tub for circulation. 2. Drain the rest of the water to within 2" above the sand and place in tubs for the live rock and remaining corals. Get them into the tub as fast as possible and again add a power head for circulation. 3. Move the rest of The sand and water into 5 gallon buckets. 4. Clean out the tank and add about 6" of fresh tank water back into the tank. 5. I wanted to get all the rubble, old snail shells and junk out of the sand so I got a large colander with holes large enough from my sand to pass through then sifted all the sand and removed the unwanted rubble to some old tank water. You can use it for rubble in a refugium if you want. Keeping it wet keeps it live. I found it easier to fill a 5 gallon bucket with fresh saltwater and then add the sand to the colander and swish the sand around. The wet sand falls to the bottom of the bucket and the rubble remains in the colander. 6. Move as much sifted sand as desired back into the tank. The water will be murky but that's OK good nutrients for the tank. 7. Allow most of the sediment to settle and then re-position the rock into the tank. Add water to keep the rock submerged but not so much that it overflows when you add the rock. 8. Top up the tank and fire up the filtration. Use filter socks to filter out the fine particles. 9 Replace the loose corals and you're done. The rotten egg smell you are smelling is hydrogen sulfide gas from anaerobic areas of your Tank. Washing the sand like this keeps the good bacteria alive and gets rid of the Hydrogen sulfide gas. Good Luck. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 11:04am
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Oh try to use as much of the old tank water as you can. Just discard the dirty water used to sift the sand. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 11:31am
Thanks for the information. I and thinking of using something like a window screen on my sand. I am wanting to get rid of all the super power sand that I have in the tank. From some reading looks like the really fine sand does not breath as well and holds more gasses. With looking at the amount of tubs I have around the house from my set up. I am going to be short on holding all my water and rock. Does anyone around Roy have some tubs that I could use for a couple days. Looks like I am going to be 75 to 100 gallons short. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 2:11pm
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This is just my opinion and I mean no disrespect , but I thinking you are making a mistake by shocking this tank again. There is no way this tank has had enough time to start stalbizing its self from the last issue. There is other ways to address the Ph. , which to me can be associated with the. recent death of your livestock and a percentage of death of your live rock and of course what ever was living in the sand Here is my thoughts. Open all doors to sump and open canopy. Fan wouldn't hurt blowing across sump. Remove the cup on the Skimmer And let your Skimmer oxygenated the water. Add another powerrhead and make sure the surface of the water is being violently agatated. Also keep changing water. I am just try to save Ya the work its going to take to do what your about to do. I can't imagine having to change my "sugar sand " in my 210 in the next 6 months. |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 3:04pm
I am not taking any disrespect from anything you are saying. I am just looking at it as I have not really fixed the last issue. I have had low ph issues from right after the tank was set up. When I would ask about the low ph. People would say I never worry about my ph because if your alk and Cal are ok your ph should be ok also. So at the end of winter my ph started getting lower and lower. I started adding Lime water to my top off. We all know how much this helps most people. I was able to get my PH to 8.10 during the day with this. I also hooked up an out side air tube for the skimmer to make sure that it was getting enough o2 with the windows closed more in the house. Then I adjusted my dosing so that I did most of my alk dosing at night to help keep the ph from dropping below 7.80 I have been told this is the line in the sand per-say about PH. I am feeling like I need to act in order to save the corals that I have left in the tank. With the little over 100% water change in the last 3 weeks my corals have started to improve. It has been a little over a week with out a 20% or more water change and my corals are starting to loose color again. and last night my ph dropped down to 7.75. If I let it keep doing this I have a strong feeling I will be loosing the rest of my corals very shortly. I know you are that it might be an air problem but in my sump I do have a power head. I also have a bubblier in each over flow and I have 3 fans built in to my sump that I have had running 24/7 for the last 2 weeks. The only thing that I have not been doing already is removing the cup from the skimmer. I can try that but do you really think that it will fix the problem? Will the problem with low ph come right back when I start skimming again? Thanks again for the reply. I love the input and other ideas that I could try. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 3:32pm
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The tank was healthy at one time correct or have you always had problems with your livestock? Also was the sand new or cleaned . ------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 3:45pm
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If you've ruled out other issues and especially if there is a rotten egg smell in the tank I would stand behind you in reducing the depth of the sand bed. Depending on the severity of the problem I might reduce it gradually but if you're afraid of releasing high quantities of Hydrogen Sulfide gas because of the rotten egg smell I would probably go with your original plan. Hydrogen sulfide gas is produced in highly anaerobic areas with little or no circulation. It's highly toxic and if left unchecked can cause serious issues with your tsnk. 2.5" of a coarser sand shouldn't be a problem but fine sand only requires about half as much to produce enough anaerobic area for nitrate reduction. Allowing 6" piles of sand to sit in your tank is asking for trouble. Get some serious advice about the filtration in your tank from other members who have large tanks that are doing well and try to replicate it in your tank. DSB's in my opinion are better left in the sump/refugium than the display tank where you can maintain them without messing with your display. While I used to be a proponent of the DSB over the years I've changed my mind on their effectiveness and long term use. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 3:54pm
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Sorry if I did not explain this very well. There was some cleaned sand from my 75 gallon tank that I moved over. When I set up the tank there was no plan for a DSB in the display. The gobies have moved all the sand from the back half of the tank and removed every bit that they can from under the rocks. So my sand went form 1" to 2". Now in the back half of the tank I can see the light in the sump and in the front It is up to 6" in places. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 4:02pm
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Have you verified the PH readings are correct? -------------  |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 03 2013 at 4:28pm
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I believe that Shelby is on the right track. As it turns out, much of this sand is very fine, almost dust, rather than the ordinary round Oolitic sand. Additionally, there are 2 active Engineer Gobies and a Diamond Goby that stir the sand and move the sand dunes almost every day. The continual disturbance of too fine of sand is probably the source of the low pH and the rotten egg gas smell. The natural buffering capacity of the system cannot keep pH where it should be. Frequent water changes with instant ocean salt have provided some temporary buffering. Removal of the dust fine sand and the Gobies would be the direction I would go with this. BTW, I should mention that one of the best tanks I ever saw had a 7" DSB of Utah Oolitic sand. This hobbyist was growing a coral that had never grown for so long in this area. The tank had been running for about 4 years at the time. If anyone is interested, I'll post some pics of that tank and it's awesome growth. Aloha, Mark  808-345-1049 call/text anytime ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 04 2013 at 10:46am
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Well I got the tank drained and all the sand sucked out last night. It was crazy the 2 kinds of sand separated in to 2 layers. The very fine sand was mostly all at the bottom. It was so dense that wit a scraper it would come up in sheets? I did take a few pictures of it and what the tank looks like now. I guess that there is a problem with the site I will try to upload the picture later ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: July 04 2013 at 10:56am
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New sand? ------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 04 2013 at 2:44pm
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Yeah I added about 120 pounds of Aragonite Reef Sand to replace the super fine sand that I pulled out. I was looking as some of the fine sand that was dried out and it almost looks like pure white playground sand. I ordered Nature's Ocean Marine White Sand from Petco. This is what 90% of the sand in the tank was made of. I still can not up load pictures of the and and the process. So far everything looks good in the tank and all the corals seem happy. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 06 2013 at 6:55am
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Scrape it up like a thick sheet - Ugh, that is not sand, it is silica silt - definitely a big problem. Sounds a bit like my experience with the coral pink silica sand of Southern Utah. Did you keep the gobies? They won't be so much of a problem now. I have never kept "sand throwing" gobies in my tanks because of how they disturb/eat the life in LS, but they are always interesting to watch in other peoples tanks.  Your tank will be doing 10x better from now on. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: July 06 2013 at 8:36am
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My apologies. Apparently I was not fully aware of the severity of the sand problem. ------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: Aquatic Evolution
Date Posted: July 06 2013 at 12:09pm
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I will try and keep it very brief... Ph problems? What is you magnesium levels? What is your Boron levels? Are you using baking soda? If so, stop and use a proper buffering compound. Are you using kalk? If so, that is probably why you sand bed is hardenng. It could be hardening for similar reasons, ie: not dosing your tank properly. IMO your deep sand bed is not your problem. The problem is that your DSB was not set up properly. You can have amazing tanks with DSB"S if done correctly. Feel free to call me. There is way too much to discuss to type it all. 801-224-1515 ------------- 
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Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 06 2013 at 12:23pm
Not a problem at all. This was not a normal problem that we see here, and you was just looking out for the things that live in my tank. Thanks Mark for letting me call you and go through my though process. Looks like I can upload some picture now. This is a pic of what was called ocean sand.  This is is Utah sand that I collected for my first tank  This is a pic of the very fine sand and Normal sand side by side  what it looked like in the tank. I used a shop vac to remove the top layer of sand It was about 1.5 to 2" thick. The fine sand was 1" to 3" thick through out the bottom of the sand bed.  What the fine sand looks like dried out  The tank all cleaned out. It was about 10:00 pm when we got to this point.  I got all the rock placed and corals back in the tank around 2:00 am. Shot of the tank the next morning.  and here are a couple of the tank this morning.    ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: July 06 2013 at 12:27pm
Mag was 1400 Boron I have not tested only dosing was BRS 2 part dosing about 100ML of alk and cal, Dosing mag as needed per test. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |