Zoas closing and dying
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: EMERGENCY FORUM
Forum Description: If you have an Emergency post here and you should receive a quick reply.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55656
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 1:00am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Zoas closing and dying
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Subject: Zoas closing and dying
Date Posted: April 10 2012 at 12:49pm
|
So, I have lost a bunch of zoos lately. I'm really stumped on this one
but I have a few suspicions. I recently switched to LED's on my RSM
130D. I have had them on for about three months, everything has been
doing great. Recently, I had been adjusting the output and the lights
came on at full strength, (no Lenses), only breifly about 8" from the
top of the water. I think that the light just blasted the zoas and they
have since started closing up, dying and being eaten by pods and crabs. So, has anyone seen this? Would this be a good estimation of why they are dying? Params are all good, SPS are doing great, but, I have also seen some of my acans on the sand shrink up a little. There are some zoas that are doing fine, but now my best colony of RDE is slowing dwindling. They were about half way up. I have since put that colony on the sand and and I have attached a pic. CA 400 KH 8 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 Phosphate 0 PH 8.3 SG 1.025 MG 1250  |
Replies:
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 10 2012 at 12:50pm
| I also recently added a few new corals and some favia. None of these corals were or are close to the zoas. I read somewhere about possible toxins release by some corals but not sure about the validity. I added Red Planet acro, Ktar Aphrodite favia, Frogspawn, and a couple other favias. |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: April 10 2012 at 12:56pm
|
I was having the same problem about a month ago. I talked to LFS and they had me try adding Marine C. They have all started opening up again and are starting to grow. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 10 2012 at 1:00pm
| What is Marine C? I have tried Revive and SeaChem Coral dip to no avail. I haven't dipped the RDE yet. Also, there are no bugs on these zoos from what I have seen. |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: April 10 2012 at 1:03pm
|
Here is a link to the info.
http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-marine-c.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-marine-c.htm
I was told by the LFS that they dont like most kent products but this one seems to work better than most. Just what I was told. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: ksmart
Date Posted: April 10 2012 at 1:26pm
|
http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Ascorbic-Acid-Crystalline-Powder-16-oz-454-g/24191" rel="nofollow - This is what Im currently dosing for vitamin C ------------- |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: April 10 2012 at 1:32pm
|
Ksmart,
About how much are you using per gallon when you are dosing? I have been looking for something a bit cheaper just was not sure what to go with. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: phys
Date Posted: April 11 2012 at 12:50am
| have you done any water changes recently? mine started to die off there for awhile until i did several water changes over a few weeks. They're big, beautiful and colorful now. also, they may not like the lighting level where they are, i've noticed mine are larger where there is slightly less light. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 11 2012 at 5:58pm
|
Something we should all understand is that basic coral health has absolutely nothing to do with any of the fancy supplemental products manufactured and sold in this hobby. I have never needed any of them and I was making a profit growing coral from 1997 to 2011. In coral farming I focused on Temp, Salinity, Alk, and Ca. Periodically I would check and adjust for Mg and I. Water changes were 10% monthly. AC (Activated Carbon in a simple floss bag near fast moving water) is a definite must for reef aquariums about 2 weeks per month. Allelopathic Chemicals are everywhere and most can only be removed with AC. Skimming and Algae growth cannot remove the toxins from the water. In order to best help you, please answer the following questions: What lights at what wattage were on the tank previously? When were the new LED's added what color and wattage and how long have they been at what intensity? How long were they "on at full strength, (no Lenses), only breifly about 8" from the top of the water" and when was this in relation to the Zoanthids starting to stay closed? How long has the Alkalinity been at 8dKH? May we see a full tank pic? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
|
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: April 11 2012 at 6:20pm
|
Umm...zoa pox? Hard to tell from the photos...but I see it all the time. Easy cure with Furan 2. I've dealt with it multiple times...and then also dosed the iHerb.com buffered Vitamin C. I don't have any photos of zoa pox, but a google image search should help point you in the right direction. Also, check the colony for zoanthid-eating spiders...never any fun!
------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 11 2012 at 10:06pm
| I have examined the latest zoos to succumb to the mystery. I don't see any white spots but will examine closer tomorrow. Each day more close up and whither away. The first set were some peach center that were about half way up. I have 28 3w Cree LEDs, half royal blue, xp-e half white xp-g. I had acclimated for a few weeks and increased the intensity to 55% max. For about a month. White at 1000 mA and blue at 800 mA. The LEDs are close enough to the top that no optics are needed. I ran them at 100% briefly, like one minute but they are very bright. This may have been just a coincidence but the zoos went down from there. The peach died within a week, 15-20 heads. The RDE were fine for a few days then one of them started turning white which was why I thought the light may have done something. I had triple reds near the top that we're loving the light then, closed and started to whither. Some are coming back but they are nearly gone, 25-40 heads. Previously had two coralife 55w t5 in the red sea max standard hood. I have perasraltic dosing pumps for alk and calc so those levels are pretty consistent. I change 10% every two weeks with reef crystals. I have chemi pure elite, Purigen and activated carbon. My SPS are all growing like weeds. |
Posted By: Taz
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 7:48am
|
I would suspect some type of predator. I have a variety of Zoanthids under LED and all do very well. There does seem to be an adjustment period. At first they shrunk up a bit but after a week or so they came back even stronger than before.
I had similar issues a few years ago and couldn't figure out why my colonies were withering away. Then I noticed a tiny Nudibranch. It was the same color as the Zoanthids it was eating which made it hard to spot. I added a yellow choris wrasse and within a week the Zoanthids were fully extended and growing again.
|
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 10:16am
I took a few pics last night when the moonlights were on. These are with my iphone, so no the best. I am seeing what appear to be small white dots. I do not see any on the triple reds however which were at the top of the tank. I am suspecting maybe the reds and peach got too much light and these dragon eyes are suffering from a disease. That is pretty poor luck to have both scenarios at the same time. Eagle Eyes, colony two is unaffected, the other colony is gone. The zoos in the second pic on the right now have a couple that are closing up. Anyone have an ID on those because I'm not sure what kind they are.    |
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 10:19am
FTS from about two months ago |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 4:46pm
|
AC is a must, but purigen/chemipure has been known to cause problems, especially in long term use. Though it may indeed be disease or predator, I would only use Chemipure for specific situations; 1) where some kind of medication or heavy metal was causing problems, 2) when previously dry, old dead LR that was too nice looking to throw away, is causing problems in the tank (Polyfilter is actually my preferred product here).
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 8:53pm
|
If I were you, I'd dip in Furan-2 just to see what happens just in case it is zoa pox. It's pretty cheap...and readily available. Whenever I get new zoanthids, if they start looking odd and dying, I dip them in Furan-2 (multiple treatments if necessary) and dose buffered Vit C. Haven't lost a colony since I started doing that. I assume you've dipped to check for spiders, right? No fish or crabs that might've gotten hungry for zoanthids? Looks like you have a pretty clean tank. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 9:37pm
|
I dipped revive and seachem iodine based coral dip (not at the same time, or day). I'm in Logan so I had to order some furan from marine depot. Won't be here till Monday. What is the dose/dip ratio for the furan-water? Mark, what are the problems that arise with seachem/purigen? |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 9:45pm
|
http://zoaid.com/articles004.php" rel="nofollow - http://zoaid.com/articles004.php BTW, I've been using that exact protocol since that article was published back in 2007. It works. If it doesn't help now, it's good to have the Furan-2 on hand for the next time.
------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Laird
Date Posted: April 12 2012 at 10:56pm
|
Where has everyone found Furan for the best deal at? ------------- Indefinite hiatus from sw aquariums. Once I have my glorious return I'll set back up the following. 50 Gallon rimless cube. 180 Gallons mixed reef paradise |
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 13 2012 at 10:48am
| Furan is cheap, like $5.99 at Marine Depot and pretty much everywhere. You can find it other places if you want to save like a dollar. |
Posted By: Laird
Date Posted: April 13 2012 at 10:58am
|
I was talking about locally ------------- Indefinite hiatus from sw aquariums. Once I have my glorious return I'll set back up the following. 50 Gallon rimless cube. 180 Gallons mixed reef paradise |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 13 2012 at 11:09am
|
http://chemi-pure.com/" rel="nofollow - Chemi-pure is a polymer in bead form that was developed to remove chemical compounds from the water. Another product that does a similar job and, I believe, a better job is http://poly-bio-marine.com/poly%20filter%20faq.html" rel="nofollow - Poly Filter manufactured in pad form. These products remove medications and some heavy metals, like copper, from the water. Unfortunately they also remove some chemical compounds that are essential for aquarium health. This is why they should be used only on a temporary basis. I have found these products most useful when old dead dry LR is reintroduced into the aquarium. Dry LR horribly pollutes the water for many months with pollutants that the tank's biofiltration cannot handle. I do not recommend using LR that has been set out of the water and allowed to partially or fully dry, but some of this LR looks really nice so if a hobbyist can't resist adding it to their aquarium, the solution is several months use of Poly Filter or Chemi-pure. Not every tank reacts the same to the same products, but we have found from some hobbyists experience with Chemi-pure that prolonged use causes coral distress. I cannot say whether Chemi-pure is removing something that some coral need or adding something that some coral don't like. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: Taz
Date Posted: April 13 2012 at 12:42pm
Try Tropical Fish Wholesale. Not sure if they stock Furan-2 or not but their name showed up on the API site of where to buy. Tropical Fish Wholesale 12270 S 700 E Draper, UT 84020 801-571-8500 |
Laird wrote:Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 12:51pm
| I have dipped the infected zoos twice. The third will be today. The Radioactive Dragon Eyes and the Green Bay Packers zoos are all completely closed up so we'll see if this stuff works. I have other zoos and palys in the tank. Would it be advised to dip those as well unless they show outward signs of infection? |
Posted By: SirReefsAlot
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 10:57am
|
Tried the Furan and lost all the polyps. I'm thinking there is another
problem. My Bio load may be high although my parameters are all near
zero. I had some dino, added some phosguard which took care of that. I'm
switching it to GFO in the next few weeks. I am seeing some hair algae
that is starting to grow and my cheato in the sump grows like crazy. Any
thoughts? I have: 1- Coral Beauty 2- small Firefish 2- small Black Ice Clowns 1- yellow Shrimp Goby 1- Royal Gramma 1- Springers Damsel 1- Emerald Crab 6- blue leg hermits It is really odd because I have a few colonies of zoos that are thriving and all the SPS are rockin. However, I have some acans that are looking a little anemic as well. I dipped in Revive and they turned around quickly but are now on the decline again. I'm getting a little frustrated.. |
Posted By: Soehl
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 12:06pm
|
I am in the middle of the same problem.... I had little white spots on my Zoas and they were closed up.
I treated with Furan-2 last week. None of my sick Zoas died but only half opened up. BUT HALF OPENED UP!!!! I was really excited about that! I am going to do another 3 day dose this week. I also bought some CoralRx to try but haven't since I already did the Furan-2. If the second dose of Furan-2 doesn't work I will try the CoralRx and a Iodine(Lugols) dip. I am also dosing the whole tank with Vitamin C. Good for the fish and good for the corals. I got Kent Marine product and use one "squirt" per 50 gallons a day. Although I have had good results, I am not completely convinced that either did the trick or if it was just the Zoas fighting the sickness. At least what I did can't hurt. ------------- Cory 180 Gallon Mixed Reef Radion Pro LED 75 Gallon Elite Sump/Refugium |
Posted By: Nails12
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 2:12pm
|
What test kit you using?? ------------- This is more than a hobby; its a lifestyle. |
Posted By: napalm77
Date Posted: May 30 2012 at 1:04am
|
Just throwing this out there... We were fighting bryopsis a while back, you should look into it and see if this is the problem. We had a huge rock of zoas that were just super angry, always closed, and they were slowly dying off. We finally did some research and asked a friend. He told us it was probably bryopsis. The zoas close up because a small film of algae grows on the head and steals the nutrients. The only way to fight it (that I know of) is to boost your magnesium to 1500ppm. You cant just use basic magnesium suppliments, I was told the only thing that would work is Kents Tech-M Magnesium. It has some added bennefit that actually fights the bryopsis. You have to dose daily until 1500ppm is reached, and then maintain for a certain amount of time. I think we did ours for a week. The rock is recovering now from that. Not all of my zoas were affected by it though, just that rock, and a couple other small frags. BUT, at least raising your magnesium for a few days wont completely jack with other corals, where as using other 'medicines' can hurt our stock. We did try coralrx, and it didnt help. Just an idea, if this has already been looked into, then consider this a repeat or whatever lol. As far as furan goes, someone should educate me on this stuff. IDK what it is or what it does. ------------- |
Posted By: laynframe
Date Posted: June 01 2012 at 8:15am
|
i bet its bryopsis as well, i had the same issue. the funny thing is now my eagle eye zoas have yellow eyes after all my treatments lol. Furan 2 is a good product to have on hand as well. Make it a habit to dip all your corals that go into your tanks to get rid of the parasites, its cheap insurance! ------------- The time we enjoy wasting isn't wasted time!!!! |
Posted By: Soehl
Date Posted: June 02 2012 at 10:52pm
|
I think you're right about the bryopsis. Mine definatly had it. I am really glad you brought it up, otherwise I would have had no idea. After the Furan-2 treatments I can see it shredded and all the way gone on most of the zoas. I still boosted my mag to 1500 though. Is there a diffenance when you boost it with supplements? I thought mag was mag.... It IS at 1500 but do you think I shoud get the Kents product??? Should I lower it and then boost it again with the Kents stuff? Everything is looking TONS better and I haven't lost any(fingers crossed) but I want to do what it best. Appreciate the advice!!! Thanks! Cory ------------- Cory 180 Gallon Mixed Reef Radion Pro LED 75 Gallon Elite Sump/Refugium |
Posted By: bstuver
Date Posted: June 02 2012 at 10:59pm
|
As far as I know it's something n the Kent's product that gets rid of it so I would go with it. ------------- Jackie Stuver "wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart |
Posted By: Soehl
Date Posted: June 05 2012 at 4:01pm
|
Last night when I checked the tank with a flashlight I had some pods on some of my closes zoas.... Will pods hurt zoas? I am pretty sure they were just "cleaning" up but I am interested in another opinion. ------------- Cory 180 Gallon Mixed Reef Radion Pro LED 75 Gallon Elite Sump/Refugium |
Posted By: Soehl
Date Posted: June 05 2012 at 4:01pm
Have you had this problem too Jackie? ------------- Cory 180 Gallon Mixed Reef Radion Pro LED 75 Gallon Elite Sump/Refugium |
Posted By: bstuver
Date Posted: June 05 2012 at 5:11pm
|
Every once in awhile I have had issues where certain ones will just die off. Never figure out what's going on and have tried a few things. I had a whole rock of watermelons that came with this new tank and the whole ock died except a small portion I fragged off. And yes here are some pods that will kill Zoas. ------------- Jackie Stuver "wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart |