on going tank problems
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Topic: on going tank problems
Posted By: phinfan
Subject: on going tank problems
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 8:05pm
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Okay, I am getting desperate now. I am still having problems with something in my tank. I have lost a acro. I have a hydnophora that is turning white, a couple acans are still declining. I have been implementing a few recommendations, from various people for a while, things still seem to be getting worse, certainly not better. Although some of my corals are fine. I would really like a couple of the more experienced people in the hobby to pay me a visit to see if there is something that can be discovered before I lose everything. Please pm me or call 801-540-0729 thanks Rick ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Replies:
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 8:22pm
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i still think its the light stress have you cut back like we talked about? ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 8:47pm
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Yes, I am currently running the exact schedule we discussed and since you seen it the acro is completely white. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: DLindquist
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 9:00pm
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Do you have another post drescribing the problems you're having? Pictures, details, descriptions? ------------- A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have. |
Posted By: Trevor40
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 9:02pm
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If peramiters are in check and there is a fast loss in coral I would look for any kind of metal in the tank that is oxidizing. That's the only think that was killing my coral and once I took out the metal I thought was reef safe everything became healthy. Just a thought, you may already know this. ------------- Call or Text (801)834-3119 |
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 11:05pm
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Are you running carbon? ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 5:13am
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yes in a filter bag, in my sump. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 1:06pm
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What salt are you using? ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 1:09pm
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I think Rick is using the Red Sea Coral Pro
I remember he said he was having too high dKH problems, too.
His corals may be suffering from alk burn
I wish I was closer I would go up and help him out
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 1:33pm
| That's interesting, I had a sorts of problems using that salt, sps bleaching ect. |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 3:31pm
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Jackie down in Provo is having similar problems to Rick...
I'm checking to see if she is using Pro Coral as well... ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 3:48pm
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I am using Oceanic now, currently doing another water change as we speak. I did switch to red sea for no apparent reason. Maybe, just because it was a better salt, or at least according to price. Not sure, I didn't log in the date I made the change, but I am pretty sure it was close. That is when I first started seeing the unhappy acans. From there things have steadily gotten worse. I did get my new light fixture, ATI sunpower. So, some of this is probably due to new lighting. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 3:50pm
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Hey Rick, If you still have that bucket of Red Sea can you check and see if there is a batch # or lot # listed somewhere on the bucket or labeling? Just curious
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 3:57pm
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I just bought the small buckets. There is a place on the container for a batch number, but the didn't supply it. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 6:12pm
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How long have you been using Oceanic now? What else have you already tried? It's hard to keep track of it all when it's in several different threads. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 7:48pm
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You added a sunpower? Sounds like the extra light might be killing your coral. Did you light acclimate your tank when you got the sunpower? Even when I replace my bulbs on my T5 I light acclimate the tank. I do two hours a day for a week. Then four hours a day for a week. Then 6,7,8 each a week until I reach desired time on. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 8:33pm
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Yes, I cut back my lighting, but apparently not enough. I do believe the light has a factor, but the acans that I keep mentioning were pissed before the lights were replaced. Is it a surprise that I could be losing some corals but not others due to light. 1 of the acans is low, 1 is midddle, both struggling. Torch hig up brains on sand bed sympodium mid to high, frog spawn mid. these have little to no affect. Sorry some of the info is spread through out sever threads, just trying to post in the appropriate spots. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: March 12 2012 at 11:08pm
| how deep is your tank? how high is the light fixture above the tank? an 8 bulb sunpower can get 250+ par on the sand bed on a 21 inch tall tank, so you may need to even put some of your acans in the shade with that fixture.... |
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 12:27am
Yes she was using red sea coral pro. I bet alot of this has to do with the sunpower, those things put out some serious par. ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
BobC63 wrote:Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 9:30am
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You guys have to remember that he was using 8 overdriven T5s before the Sunpower. I doubt the Sunpower is causing too many problems at this point. I would almost bet the salt is the problem. From the parameters I have seen with the Red Sea Pro, I wouldn't use it. It sounds just like another Reef Crystals formula with super high alkalinity. One thing I see is that some LPS are having issues but not others. I would look into Magnesium levels and make sure they are about 1300ppm. I would also check where the RO water is coming from. Make sure the filters have all been replaced recently and double check to see if you have Chloramines in your water up there. |
Posted By: shawn0999
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 10:34am
| I use to run a 250 watt halide over my 40 cube with SpS Lps and zoos close to the top never had bleaching problem IMO its not the light |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 10:49am
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I agree with Ryan. From what I have heard directly from Kevin and from what I have followed in his threads and PM's over the last couple months, I believe it's something to do with the water and is following the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnlkKdDXk-I" rel="nofollow - "Chaos Theory" . Any tank can have problems. Many variables can combine to create problems. The same things that are happening in this case, have happened to the most experienced hobbyists, including myself. + Sometimes it's the hobbyists efforts to make improvements. + Sometimes it's the natural changing ecology of a growing and maturing tank. = Always it's the combination of those things that has a 50/50 chance of leading unpredictably one way or the other. This is a list of what I see. If anything below is off base, please point it out: - The tank has been changing continuously with additions of new coral, new lights, new salt mixes, new source water, new Refugium components and perhaps more things of which we are unaware. - The biology/biofiltration has been affected as indicated by, and leading to, algae blooms and disappearance.(were there some snail problems at one point?) - The coral problems accompanied a change in salt mix. - Through all of this, there have been no fish problems, right? - The new salt mix is very different than the previous salt, in fact it's at the opposite end of the salt mix spectrum. (High Ca << Balanced >> High Alk) - Jackie, another good hobbyist was also having problems with coral, when using that last salt. - It's been long enough now that coral should have become accustomed to the new lights(unless there is a defective light tube that is throwing out a lot of UV or something) - Adequate water testing has been done on known water parameters, yet there are so many water parameters that we cannot test; what some consider the "art" of aquarium keeping. - Significant changes in water parameters were dealt with as appropriately as possible.  Sometimes, bad stuff just happens.------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 1:20pm
8 overdriven t5s locked into a hot canopy, with bulbs that are months old are not putting out as near as much PAR as a sunpower. I do believe most people are correct with the salt, but I do think the new light isn't helping the corals recover- if light acclimation was not followed.
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Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 1:22pm
This is irrelevant - A sunpower puts out more light (PAR) than a typical 250 watt halide....which is why you didn't have any bleaching. You would have to be more careful with a sunpower than a 250 halide.
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Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 1:30pm
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Phin-I think you are on the right track to fix the problems - new salt, getting parameters stable. However, an issue many people forget is after you correct the problem, it is now time to play nurse. Spot feed any LPS corals that are suffering with mysis in order to aid in their recovery. Spot feeding struggling Acans would be really benefical for them to rebound. Evaluate your tank and let these corals rest. Make sure flow isn't blasting anything and I would run your actinics longer, and your daylights less for 2-4 weeks to allow the corals to be put in an environment where they can rest. Keep us updated and let us know if you do something that seems to work!Other things to check if you are still having problems that we tend to forget - stray voltage, dips in temp, copper levels in the tank, leaching metal/ parts of pumps, TDS of RO water, dying chaeto, asexual calupra, tainted/old frozen food, fish that like to nibble in the dark on corals, and finally PESTS!
While nursing your tank, the best time to identify a problem is late at night when lights have been out. Use a flashlight and go around examining corals, fish, verts, etc. and see how things are interacting. I had a problem with acans receeding and found in the night my emerald crab chowing down on it. Ya just never know with some things.
Good luck!
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Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 1:40pm
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sorry - so many posts but I keep thinking of other things I have had problems with....yes many problems!! I've had many problems so I think I owe it to others to share as the hardest part is diagnosing the issue.
How are you dosing two part? How much are you dosing? At one point my 2 part solutions were contaminated- make sure you are rinsing out these containers when refilling....make sure you are using RO water for them, make sure you are using/making the appropriate 2 part products-store bought or if you make them from Down Flake, Baking Soda, etc........
Contaminants- rinse out water change buckets, watch out where you make new water (I use to make it in my basement near the washer and dryer until I noticed my wife hovering over the water with freshly washed and wet clothes....
What is your sump like? May be time for a good cleaning, they can be detrius traps, etc.
Anyways just some more thoughts....and not to be controversial, but I have used Red Sea Coral Salt for quite a while now and haven't had any issues.....yet?
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Posted By: Rara
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 2:00pm
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Bur01014, I currently don't have any issues with my tank, but I definitely just learned a couple things reading your post. Thanks. I've also been using Red Sea Coral salt for the past few months with no ill effect. I bought the larger bucket however. |
Posted By: bstuver
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 2:07pm
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My bucket is the large bucket as well. However I do not think it was my problem. I think I just had the misfortune of a bad tank move. ------------- Jackie Stuver "wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart |
Posted By: Studboyt
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 2:58pm
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Just FYI I switched from Oceanic salt to the Red Sea coral pro about 5 months ago and do weekly water changes with no bad side effects. Small buckets in a 29 gal Biocube HQI. Aaron
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 3:30pm
When the bulbs were new, they were out performing a Sunpower no problem. Since the problem has continued for months, lighting is not a culprit IMO. Bad batches of salt happen. Just because 20 other people don't have an issue with the same brand salt, doesn't mean you can discredit salt either. As Mark said, sometimes bad things just happen and we can't control it. |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 8:58pm
My tank is 30x30x26 ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 9:06pm
Correct no fish problems. 2 acans have been pissed of for a while. before the new lights. Although, if I am not mistaken the change in the acans followed the change in salt mix, but not sure I did not log the date I started using red sea. The candy corals are possibly starting to look better. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 9:12pm
I am hand feeding all corals that are in feed mode. The candy corals, and acans rarely have polyps extended, but the dendro feeds most mornings, as do the brains the rest of the corals are doing fine accept 2 montis, one is definately bleached due to light, probably both. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 9:16pm
I manually dose. $ tsp Alk almost daily to maintain 9.6, I do use ro just changed filters, not membrane as it is just 1 year old, my tds meter says that ro is fine. my sump isn't the cleanest ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 9:21pm
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thanks to all for your responses. I really appreciate it. Please stay with me on this and I will keep this thread going with updates on the turn around. I do have some sympodium that has continued to thrive through all of this, I would like to get rid of some, although I am not sure if now is the time to start cutting anything. Let me know if anyone is interested and we can work something out. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 11:32pm
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I would also add, When a coral gets stressed for what ever reason it can take months for it to recover if at all, So lets say the salt was the start of these. The coral gets stressed out, Then on top of that new brighter lights were added which stresses corals even more. Some corals might not be affected and some might and we ask why? These are living animals which can get stressed and die for many many reasons. So i would say there isn't ever a straight arrow answer to some of these problems but we can try to limit some of the negative out comes. I have seen many tanks have huge problems after changing bulbs even after a lighting acclimation, Some corals just never looked the same again and some died while others did amazing. This is just my .02 ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 14 2012 at 4:29am
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thanks Eric The candies looked a bit better yesterday, possibly. The acans have been pissed off for a long time so, the new light was probably not the cause for their issue. The candies and dendro should be a good measuring stick, because the were always happy prior. Currently the dendro is open most mornings and/or through the night, and I hand feed it and the others that are in feed mode at that time. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: Snowsrfr
Date Posted: March 14 2012 at 7:41am
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Rick, I'm no pro, but am in your area, so if you ever need any help, just shoot me a PM or give me a call. ------------- "A fish tank is not a pet. It's a TV that you gotta feed." - John Caparulo |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 15 2012 at 8:35pm
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It appears that the candy coral may be starting to turn around. Not a huge change, but a little.. Acans, not much of a change. Assuming that the monti's are stressed or discolored due to lighting. Will they fully regain their color or will the just continue to grow? ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: March 15 2012 at 9:41pm
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yes the monti will ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: March 23 2012 at 9:15pm
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Does it make sense that 3 linkia starfish are not affected by any of the problems that have been going on in my tank? 1 large blue, 1 med orange, and 1 small dalmation. ------------- John 3:16 93 GAL. Cube, 8 T5's, Elite Aquatics sump |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 24 2012 at 11:34am
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How are they acting that makes you think they are unaffected? That's a lot of Stars for that tank. What are they eating? There are only a few hobbyists I know of that have been able to keep a Linkia Seastar for long. If the Stars are roaming actively all over the tank, it's because they are frantically seeking food but not finding it. It's their last burst of energy to move to where there is food. If they were in the wild they would have moved into new territory but in a little closed system, all they can do is move around in circles. Eventually they will slow down and never move again. Sorry.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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