Glad I could be an inspiration for the name.

I said I would call it snake oil until I could see the ingredients and know what is going in to my tank. Your explanation answered a lot of my questions and I appreciate the detailed reply.

As consumers in this hobby we are taken by A LOT of different companies that claim things and have no science to back them up (Brightwell Aquatics, Kent, PurpleUp and Marc Weiss come to mind). But don't you dare call any of them out on it and stir the pot.

I see a plethora of additives and supplements that all claim great things but fall short of their claimed mark.

I am not saying this new product won't work or can't work. I simply said I want more details before I start throwing it in my tank.

For the most part you are correct, in that the chemical reaction to release the chloride starts the second it hits the RO water. This is why it is always recommended to mix your 2 part before adding it to the tank. The next time you add your two part to the tank watch it as it hits the water, you will see that there is still reaction taking place as it mixes into the saltwater.  Often when you mix your products you will see sediment on the bottom of the container. This is known as fall-out, or the elements that were not able to bond.

Definition:   BASE-LINE = the level of Calcium/Alkalinity/Magnesium in your tank before adding any of our products. 

I need to stress that the New Products do not replace your current system of dosing to maintain the BASE-LINE of Cal/Alk/Mg, unless setup and tested continually on a dosing system. Our New Products, when being introduced to the tank are SOOO small that the corals can absorb them Passively, and instantly. This is why when we have tested the show tank 2 hours after dosing, it is back to the BASE-LINE.  The biggest difference is that we are now dealing with Nano Particulates. 

To give you an idea on the size difference, in 5 ml of solution there are MORE nano particulates than there are CELLS in the human body.

This means that we have just released the SMALLEST Calcium/Alkalinity/Magnesium products on the planet, LOL .

BillyC wrote:  My other question is, if not by addition of calcium chloride (or any other calcium salt) how is the maker of this product able to get pure calcium ions into a solution and keep it stable without having it react or precipitate with anything else?

This is the Million Dollar/Proprietary question.  What I can say is that the 'Process' of doing it must be done in a lab after passing through a few steps of security clearance. This process has been used and is being used for Food/Human Consumption products, but I don't have authorization to say who or what. We were just EXTREMELY lucky to bring it to the Ornamental Fish and Coral world.

This is getting good! You can all hate and flame me all you want. The "science" behind this product isn't there. If this formula is truly some breakthrough in science, it would cost a hell of a lot more than $10 a bottle.

This sounds like Chris Brightwell stuff to me. Has anyone researched what Pure Calcium does when added to H2O? I suggest you look it up on Google and even YouTube for a good video.

Let's see what Randy Holmes-Farley has to say.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=207351" rel="nofollow - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=207351  

Sorry guys. I hope you all have great success and you have more frags then you know what to do with. I will come buy them from you but this product can NOT be what is claimed. It would defy the very laws of science.

 

 

As for those claiming that this product is too cheap to be what it claims, I assure you that there have been Millions invested in the research and development of this technology.  However I was approached by a friend to 'try this'.  It has been almost a year since we first talked about this, and as soon as we tried it in the store, we scrambled to lock in the Exclusivity Agreement.  We have made this first run as a trial in the market, we did however keep the prices down just to cover the costs of production, not development, hence the $9.99 price per bottle, and no lables.  We want this to be something Great for the hobby, so the final retail price for the 16oz bottles will land somewhere between $13-$20 MSRP. This is still not much compared to what you get out of it, but we had a price in mind, and did everything we could to keep it near that price. 

 

 

If you doubt it, or if you don't believe it is possible, try it or don't try it. The reality is, IT WORKS. I have seen it, and you will see it.

 

Ryan posted that he tried all four but thinks it is just the Accelerant that made the difference, try it for a few weeks without using the Accelerant. Post growth pics as well as test results. The stony corals will still grow, and you will still see an increase in color. If you are not growing Stony corals, try just the Accelerant.  If you are going to test it, try to test 10-15 mins after adding it, also try to pinpoint when it is completely used from the system. Post the results.  If it doesn't work, post the results.

 

I am willing and able to ship this to ANYONE who wants to try it. Feel free to contact me via Email at mailto:Sales@ReefOn.com" rel="nofollow - [email protected] , so we can workout the payment option and shipping details. We have orders shiping out on Mondays and Thursdays.

 

 

I want to clarify this. I have no idea why I had a feeding response out of my corals after using the product. I don't know if it was just one of them or all of them or something else. If I notice a feeding response everyday after dosing, I will conclude that there is something in the supplements that causes this. For now, I don't which one encouraged anything.

Randy suggested that the Coral Accelerant might be vitamins and other elements. I get a feeding response when I dose my tank with Fuel as well. So right now it is coincidental until I have more time.

Jerry, would you please post detailed instructions on how to use this product. Do we dose them all together or wait 10 minutes between each? I think it is 15mL per 100 gallon right? Stuff like that.

 

As we watched the levels come back down, and after using a hundred Salifert tests(which we will probably switch to RedSea), we determined that the corals we have in the show tank were using up the amounts we were dosing within a 2 hour period.  Clearly the amount to use is changed based on the Mass of the corals in your tank, not necessarily by the amount of water.

Thanks Jerry

To state that by simply monitoring calcium levels over a time series after adding a product, seeing it go down, and then attributing that to coral growth is beyond sketchy.

Don't bring science into this....

The "science" behind this product was already debunked by the hobby's top chemists. It was more than just Randy who said this product can NOT be as advertised. Randy and Habib said that something else may be in the solutions that helps with growth but the product is NOT what it is claiming.

I am on my 4th day of dosing and only got the feeding response the first time. For now, I will conclude that the feeding response was something else and NOT this product. As far as growth is concerned, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. Actually, my corals have been less puffy the last couple days.

My latest tests showed my alk at 9dkh and my calcium at 430ppm. I didn't test Mg because I know it is around the 1400ppm mark.

That brings up another really good point. Do people understand the variances in test kits? Did you know that the average hobbyist test kit of Calcium is off by about 50ppm, alkalinity is off by 1dkh and Magnesium kits are off by about 100ppm?

There is SO MUCH room for error with our test kits. A reading of 420ppm could be 440ppm if tested again right after. Which one is correct? If you do a third test and it comes back 420ppm again, is 420ppm the right number or is it somewhere in between?

Hobby grade test kits are NOT a viable way to test a system's uptake of certain elements. People must understand we are just shooting to be within a range with our tanks. There is little difference between 420ppm and 440ppm. Both tests that were used to determine those numbers could have had serious human error at play.

So, for me, the science is fake. Whether or not I will see real results is yet to be determined.

Since you like quotes so much:

"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt."

Name that author? Oh, did you say Abraham Lincoln? Try again.

If you would gladly read my signature, you will comprehend what I am saying.

I like using lots of punctuation too!!!!   It shows how smart I really am!!!!   Can't you see how smart I am????     Yay for punctuation.,::::;;;::!!?!?!?!?!?!!!

 

Ok, ding, ding, I am ready for round two..........

There was a three month gap from when Eric Sold the store to when I bought the store.

As for the fight above, I do not want to get involved other than saying that We offered to send some to the experts, they denied our offer.  Very soon however, there are other experts who will be releasing articles about the use of this technology in the coral reef field of study. 

However I will be creating a new thread for people to post their results, as well as will post some of ours.

ATTENTION!!!

I am writing this response in hopes of trying to save my fellow reefers their hard-earned money and exposing a LFS that is knowingly making extremely false claims about a so-called miracle product and taking advantage of their customers' trust. To tell you a little about myself, my husband and I both teach in science department at two separate universities. My field is Biology and my beloved husband is the chemistry expert. I will attempt to pursuade you that ReefOn's new revolutionary dosing product makes scientific claims that are absolutely false and misleading.

ReefOn's "science" behind this product has been proven wrong on a couple other forums (WMAS and ReefCentral) and his response has been that he is not allowed to reveal additional information because of a "non-disclosure" agreement. Is it a coincidence that he began to explain all the details and complex chemistry behind it without hesitation, but when confronted with the proof of why his claims could never be true he suddenly is unable to explain any further?

One of the most respected chemists in the saltwater aquarium hobby, Randy Holmes-Farley, has said this, "I really don't understand what the product is claiming to be. It might just be nanaoparticle calcium carbonate, and even then I'd be surprised if they are using that term correctly. Might just be fine calcium carbonate. And that is a well known product (such as Aragamight or Kent Liquid Reactor) which really doesn't dissolve nor is it available to corals. I don't believe the passive uptake of any nanoparticles is going to be significant." To those who are unfamiliar with Randy, you can find info on him along with his very impressive credentials. If Randy and other science majors such as myself cannot understand, or disagree with this product, how is a LFS owner to know better?

If you wish to continue reading, I will go on to elaborate on some major points on how this product is making false claims:

ReefOn claims that this product contains no "carrier" molecule and is therefore more efficiently absorbed by corals. I'll start by saying that in liquid form, there is no such thing as a "carrier" molecule. The necessary particles such as calcium, carbonate, and magnesium, naturally separate from the so-called "carrier (sodium, chloride, sulfate)" as soon as it dissolved in water. When ReefOn was challenged by another reefer to approve of testing to determine whether or not the solutions contained the "carriers," as he claimed they didn't, he responded by saying this, "After speaking with the chemist I was informed that there will still be small traces of Sodium, Chloride, and Sulfate in the solutions." ReefOn's original claim, "With no 'carrier' like chloride, sulfate or sodium, the mixtures we have are the calcium, carbonate (alkalinity) and magnesium in a pure h2o/water," was never true afterall. I have taken the liberty of testing these products myself. I have purchased them directly from Jerry and heard him preach about this "explosive growth." Testing the solution was simple. It revealed that the proportion of useful molecules to "carrier" molecules were indeed exactly the same as the proportion of any homemade calcium, magnesium or carbonate solution. This disproves this product's claim indefinitely. Almost every scientific claim about this product can easily be proven as a lie but I will not go any further. If there is any specific claim you would like me to elaborate on, please post your questions!

This product claims "explosive growth." This term is subjective so this paragraph will be purely my educated opinion based on my experience in growing sps corals for 10+ years. The growth pictures ReefOn has been posting have been, at best, average good growth. In my personal tank and tanks of others I know, sps corals grow just as fast as ReefOn's. Assuming he is being honest about the dates of the photos, ReefOn chooses to post growth shots of corals, such as the Red Planet, that are notoriously fast growers in any stable system. It is also known that the larger a coral colony becomes, the faster the growth rate will be. It should also be made known that ReefOn did not grow that Red Planet colony by themselves but purchased it from a reefer that was getting out of the hobby last Fall.

ReefOn claims that he (Jerry) has exclusive rights to this product. Does it really make sense that a major scientific research corporation makes a HUGE groundbreaking discovery that changes the laws of chemistry, and then chooses a small fish store in Utah to pioneer its distribution? In my opinion the answer is no. IF (and that's a big big "IF") half of these claims were possible, I believe that this secret corporation ReefOn has supposedly partnered with, would choose to maximize profits to recoup their research costs and approach a much larger well-known organization to advertise and distribute their product internationally.

To those that claim they are using this product and are observing results, I respect you and apologize if I have offend you. However, ask yourselves in all honesty either if the growth you are seeing is directly related to ReefOn's product, or if you are simply trying really hard to notice growth. If you believe in miracles in the form of secret bottled solutions, then please by all means buy this product. But if you are seeking a product with scientific background that says no lies, then this product is a waste of your hard-earned money. Instead, buy yourself that frag, fish, or equipment you have really been wanting (preferably from a LFS that does not lie to your face.)

I want to apologize to ReefOn for possibly jeopardizing their income from this product but I openly welcome any rebuttal that would disprove anything I have said. In other forums, ReefOn has avoided direct questions and has "beaten around the bush," simply said that he is not allowed to disclose information, and used fancy irrelevant words to further confuse fellow reefers. I expect ReefOn will either continue to do this, or completely ignore this.

Please feel free to comment, ask questions, and post your honest concerns.